uaav8r

Ben, you're welcome. 13 years of airline experience, that's great. It has no bearing whatsoever on why you are pushing/selling the "NO" vote. The fact that you are on APC preaching to the flock though just tells me that you realize that this TA may actually pass and like any good salesman you are working overtime to deliver for your side. Like I said earlier, you represent the junior pilots at Continental very well. I'm sure that you will tell me that you want an ISL just as expeditiously as I do. And maybe YOU do. But, many of your brothers and sisters do not. I don't blame them one bit. We, LUAL, represent to LCAL exactly what your former airline USair was to us in our 2 merger attempts. Senior guys with whom we'd prefer to never have an ISL. Well this merger has happened and the playing field is so lop-sided it is ridiculous. If this TA fails, the CAL side has nothing to lose in terms of job security. The UAL side not so. This TA is not perfect, but when you compare it to DAL and AMR and weigh it against the realities of our industry and our economy it is not worth struggling for many more months to, maybe, achieve TA2. This 4 way negotiation between UCH, CALMEC, UALMEC, & the NMB has come to a conclusion. We, the pilots of the 'new United' will finally have a JCBA next week. If not, then I truly believe that we are destined to become USairways part 2. I'll say it again...This TA will be voted down by the pilots of CAL or voted in by the pilots of UAL. There is a very good reason for that. I hope that someday when we are truly one, Ben, that I have you representing my best interests as well. You are a devoted union Rep.

Slats Extend

The other great thing is how these No bloviators make statements like "scheduling is concessionary for UAL" When it is anything but...

Or, this T/A is not good enough and then don't figure in the cost of a timeline to try to replace, improve or just move the deck chairs around as the company gets to renegotiate the things they don't like in the T/A also is a constant in their communications.

Is the T/A perfect? Hell no but its way better than the contracts at UAL and CAL ...

The pathetic irony of railing against a SELL job and then putting out an emotional vote NO sell job should not be lost on anyone.

uaav8r

You are correct. 15 years of "juniority" at UAL. My point? That seniority integration is a major concern for junior CAL guys. But then like I've said, I don't blame them one bit. I wouldn't want to integrate with "junior" 15 year UAL guys like myself either if I were in their position. This JCBA needs to get done.

uaav8r

+1.............

thor2j

Why do u think you will make out so well as a "junior" Ual guy??

uaav8r

I do NOT think that I will make out very well in the SLI. I will probably get slated behind a CAL guy hired several years after I was hired at United. I've accepted that and moved on. Moved on to focusing on getting OUR JCBA done and not 'fearing' the ISL in the process. Going for layover brew now. Cheers.

horrido27

Interesting..
Ben Salley comes on here to defend his ALPA Comm. He identify's himself and even leaves a number.
Yet the pilots slamming him remain nameless.

Motch

horrido27

And the question becomes.. who do you believe-

Jay P told us.. "Don't believe the $400 million Retro/Lump Sum rumor"
He Lied. It was true.

Jay P Told us.. "Don't believe the leaked payscales"
He Lied. It was true.

Jay P told us.. "The Loan is Due"
He Lied. We are getting pennies to the dollar.

Jay P told us.. "United Against Outsourcing.
He Lied. Larger RJ's are coming, ASM's staying the same.

We directed our EWR Reps in a certain direction, they led us in a different direction and now attempt to sell it to us.

Ben Salley has my support~

horrido27

A320 Captain..
I'm glad you are not Voting YES out of Fear. If you truly believe this is a great TA, or that there is nothing you can do to make it better.. then there is nothing anyone is going to say that will make you change your mind.

I attended the EWR RoadShow (and got up to speak twice)..
A UAL 756 FO out of NYC got up and stated that "This TA Sucks. But I am Voting Yes"...
How should any of us view that?

He went on about not having a raise for many years, "fear" of the NMB and the unknown.. and for wanting to move forward, with a unified pilot group.

I'm sorry, but it will be hard to be a Unified Pilot group going forward if this thing passes. I'm being honest.

I've heard the statement that "If it passes, it's because of the UAL Pilots, and if it fails, it's because of the CAL Pilots".
Not sure how much truth is in that but my gut tells me that those sentiments may hold true.

Only thing to add is.. if it fails, we know that there will be another deal on the table. The unknown is when. 2 Months, 6 months, ?
But for that period of time, the "CAL" pilots will take the blame. OK.
But if it passes, I think the UAL pilots will take the blame for the next 6-7 years~
Again, just my opinion.

Motch

PS> I like your Citibank Mortgage rate comment. What about this- UAL needs labor peace to get better interest rates, moving forward. Isn't that some leverage too?
And what are we asking for that is so unreasonable??

Remove LOA25
Increase Retro/Lump Sum.
Revisit PayBands and adjust Payrates closer to Delta at DOS!
Tighten up Scope Language (with regards to B717 type Aircraft/Pay)

ChrisJT6

Haven't met a Single CAL or UAL pilot that disagrees with the above goals.

Just haven't met anyone that has a plan or ideas to pass on to the JNC or MECs on how they will get the NMB and Company to agree to your demands. For many, this is a business decision that involves separating goals, risk and bouncing them off realities.

Plenty of non-757 CAL pilots that are gonna vote for this TA...CAL 757 pilots just drew the short straw on the pay bands that MGMT and the CAL MEC demanded. Who knows if you are right about an improved offer coming anytime soon after a rejected TA, but I am certain sCAL will continue to see bids with hundreds of new Captains...good luck convincing sUAL pilots that you're payrate or any of the issues above are more important than breaking the whipsaw. The fear of living with the undesirable areas of this TA well beyond ("6 or 7 years") the ammenable date is how different from fears accussed of being spread by UAL crews? Fiscal cliff, High Oil via attack on Iran vs. having to live with this contract for a decade...I see both sides spreading fear to bolster the positions.

Also, I don't slight Ben in any way just propose anyone including him describe how they propose we'd force our demands with the NMB and the Company after rejecting a TA that all parties agree is the highest cost of the pax carriers.

Please show us the way or otherwise, I just keep seeing a whole lot of Rumpelstiltskins emotionally ranting demands.

You rip a pilot group that has a long history of fighting the good fight...where's your ammo?