My opinion (worthless)
12-05-2012, 12:15 PM
#21
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There are no contractual provisions that stop CAL from hiring, paying profit sharing, training, etc. We can't fight what your current contract says the company can do because our contract doesn't prevent it.
LOA 25 only potentially INCREASES longevity pay for furloughees. Potentially up to full DOH. Current contract provides ZERO longevity. This LOA increases that.
LOA 25 only potentially INCREASES longevity pay for furloughees. Potentially up to full DOH. Current contract provides ZERO longevity. This LOA increases that.
LOA 25 provides full furlough longevity credit to all CAL and UAL pilots except the United pilots hired between 1999 and 2001. The TA also has language in it that will apply it to all pilots in the future. You can provide it to everyone equally, or no one at all, but you can't discriminate to a carved out group.
" The duty of fair representation is incumbent upon U.S. labor unions that are the exclusive bargaining representative of workers in a particular group. It is the obligation to represent all employees fairly, in good faith, and without discrimination."
12-05-2012, 12:18 PM
#22
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oops.. sorry Coto, I must have been typing when you posted....what you said.
12-05-2012, 12:59 PM
#23
Peace Love Understanding
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LOA 25 provides full furlough longevity credit to all CAL and UAL pilots except the United pilots hired between 1999 and 2001. The TA also has language in it that will apply it to all pilots in the future. You can provide it to everyone equally, or no one at all, but you can't discriminate to a carved out group.
" The duty of fair representation is incumbent upon U.S. labor unions that are the exclusive bargaining representative of workers in a particular group. It is the obligation to represent all employees fairly, in good faith, and without discrimination."
" The duty of fair representation is incumbent upon U.S. labor unions that are the exclusive bargaining representative of workers in a particular group. It is the obligation to represent all employees fairly, in good faith, and without discrimination."
I don't disagree that every pilot should get full pay longevity, but this is an ADDED thing that we currently don't have. So the argument is that it should have been even better.
12-05-2012, 01:16 PM
#24
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No, the argument is the ADDED thing should be applied equally since neither side had it previously.
12-05-2012, 01:36 PM
#25
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Take a UAL pilot hired January 1 2000 and a CAL pilot hired the same date. The UAL Pilot was furloughed for 4.5 years and the CAL pilot for 4. Upon signing of the TA, the CAL pilot gets full longevity credit and the UAL pilot gets none. After the SLI is complete, the UAL pilot may get additional longevity credit, but that will be tied to a CAL pilot hired after him. How is that fair, in good faith, and without discrimination?
12-05-2012, 01:38 PM
#26
Peace Love Understanding
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So I completely understand that as a percentage, some will get 100% and some will get 40% and I don't really know the legal aspects of what this means.
If I were ALPA I'd file the answer as "We want that too. Judge force the company to give it to them." But until SLI happens, there isn't any harm done because nothing is being taken away.
Let's just hope for an SLI that rewards your longevity with regards to when you were an active pilot for United and respects everyone's contribution on both sides.
12-05-2012, 01:40 PM
#27
Peace Love Understanding
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Take a UAL pilot hired January 1 2000 and a CAL pilot hired the same date. The UAL Pilot was furloughed for 4.5 years and the CAL pilot for 4. Upon signing of the TA, the CAL pilot gets full longevity credit and the UAL pilot gets none. After the SLI is complete, the UAL pilot may get additional longevity credit, but that will be tied to a CAL pilot hired after him. How is that fair, in good faith, and without discrimination?
I think this is an interesting and emotional point for sure.
12-05-2012, 02:21 PM
#28
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Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
Take a UAL pilot hired January 1 2000 and a CAL pilot hired the same date. The UAL Pilot was furloughed for 4.5 years and the CAL pilot for 4. Upon signing of the TA, the CAL pilot gets full longevity credit and the UAL pilot gets none. After the SLI is complete, the UAL pilot may get additional longevity credit, but that will be tied to a CAL pilot hired after him. How is that fair, in good faith, and without discrimination?
12-05-2012, 02:25 PM
#29
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Somebody has been drinking a little too much kool-aid at the road shows.
I guess all the UAL pilots need to know is "Cherry or Grape?"
My best advice to L-UAL is to talk to the UAL guys flying at CAL right now. Talk to them about contract abuse and how the company interprets the contract in THEIR favor.
The language of this TA is NOT strong enough to prevent this from continuing for another 4 years and beyond. Don't be swayed by a few extra dollars in your pocket. If this gets past the pilots, there will be a big "I told you so" 6 months from now when you see the company's interpretation of this POS TA.
Do what the Union has asked you to do. Look at the TA as a whole, not just the money. Look at the changes in you Quality of Life. The company is buying 51% of the pilots and that's all.
I guess all the UAL pilots need to know is "Cherry or Grape?"
My best advice to L-UAL is to talk to the UAL guys flying at CAL right now. Talk to them about contract abuse and how the company interprets the contract in THEIR favor.
The language of this TA is NOT strong enough to prevent this from continuing for another 4 years and beyond. Don't be swayed by a few extra dollars in your pocket. If this gets past the pilots, there will be a big "I told you so" 6 months from now when you see the company's interpretation of this POS TA.
Do what the Union has asked you to do. Look at the TA as a whole, not just the money. Look at the changes in you Quality of Life. The company is buying 51% of the pilots and that's all.
The "I told you so" would be substantially more fierce from the L-UAL "Yes" voters to the "No" voters when they watch CAL hire 60 a month, take delivery of new airplanes every month, and endure continued shrinkage.
12-05-2012, 06:52 PM
#30
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