CousinEddie

Do you remember what was going on economically four years ago? My neighbor at the time was a finance guy involved in global investments for pension and other retirement plans for a well known company. He was scared to death and pacing the house in the middle of the night. What do you think the odds of keeping a premium contract would have been if you had it back then? Had you been sitting there with anything other than Contract 02 at that time, you would have taken a beating. Your retro losses are a figment of your imagination.

Scoop

As a DAL guy the 6 weeks of vacation and 16% retirement look pretty good. For comparison we top out at only 5 weeks of vacation and are now at 14% going to 15% for retirement.


Scoop

EWRflyr

I just have to ask because this has been a common refrain when talking to the L-UAL pilots: why does voting YES and getting past the SLI process mean we are going to be unified? Why is that the only way that can happen? I'm not asking to be a jerk or to stir the pot. I'm only trying to find out why, if this contract is not that great for L-UAL pilots either, just accepting it and is the best way to move on and unify the pilots?

Wouldn't it also show pilot unity if there was a strong, firm NO vote? "Sorry, this contract is unacceptable and we deserve better as this pilot group has shown with their vote."

I keep hearing we need to come together now so we can be unified for the next time. The next time? How often do we keep hearing "well, we'll be unified and stronger NEXT time?" We've been hearing that at L-CAL for a long time for various reasons. When are pilots going to take a stand NOW?

uaav8r

Getting past the SLI to me means more than being unified. It means that perhaps I too can have a shot at the left seat of all those "United" planes out there at our hubs. After 15 years of "juniority" I'm sitting 5 or 6 from the bottom on perpetual reserve in the right seat. I have not progressed a single number on the 756 right seat in 5 years. In fact I've moved backwards. 12 years ago I was a solid lineholder in the same seat. In 9 months we will commence the parking of 85 757's. That's not good news. The replacement aircraft are 737-900ER's, of which we have no simulators, no PI's, no training syllabus and no payscale. Pretty sure that training will be taking place in your training center in IAH, with or without us. Unified to me means having a fair shot at the progression that is taking place in "the other half" of United Airlines. That is why this SLI process needs to happen as rapidly as possible for sUALers like myself. Voted YES on November 30th. That, my friend, is as honest an answer as I can give you.

gettinbumped

And it's a good honest answer. Unfortunately, the L-UAL pilots have seen several maneuvers by the CAL union leadership that makes them feel less than "unified". LOA 25, Pay Banding, profit sharing done outside of required try-party negotiations.... None of that is bringing any unity. As uaav8r points out, the next hurdle is the planes leaving L-UAL and where they go. Let's say Captain Pierce's past actions haven't left us feeling warm and fuzzy. And I haven't seen one L-CAL pilot stand up and suggest that they wouldn't fly the new planes if presented to them at L-UAL's expense. If this TA passes, we will get through the SLI with pretty much everyone being disappointed (the sign of a successful merger), and then we can move on. At that point, all events effect the pilot group EVENLY. As it stands now, one groups pain is usually the others gain. And it's been a smidge one-sided, wouldn't you say??

EWR73FO

It has, to an extent. And yes, if most could, we would not fly the new aircraft. The problem is that the new aircraft are replacing the aircraft we are parking on a one-for-one basis. The same is true for the 787. We will finish parking all 767-200's sometime in 2013.

Our point is we understand and do see the transfer of assets possibly going to happen at LUAL. We have also seen this new aircraft order for a TA BS in the past also. It didn't end very well. Here, sign C02 and you can fly a shinny new 787.

A large number of us watched the CA seats we waited 9+ years for, disappear with age 65 as well as having Abbot tell us why he was slashing EWR flying and cutting even more CA seats to make it better for "commuters".

We just don't want the LUAL pilots to bite on a substandard TA in the hopes of eliminating said transfer. How disappointed do you we will ALL be if this TA is voted in and the SLI takes 18 months and the transfer happens anyway? Mgmt is gonna do what mgmt wants to do. All we can do is not bite on the division they have created so far.

EWR73FO

If this TA passes, why would anyone think that there would be more unity the next time around?

oldmako

Hopefully, there will be less division which will lead to unity. There certainly won't be one group trying to get a leg up on the other, at the expense of the other and the TA. Think of the profit sharing debacle, pay banding, leaks etc. For you guys to NOT recognize just how much of an obstacle JPOS has been to this effort either smacks of ignorance of the process or arrogance. Leverage lost if you will. You would see our point if on this side of the fence. We have certainly seen yours.

Unfortunately, by then the reality of this crappy TA will have set in. I fear that means we will have to put most of our capital into fixing all the concessionary work rule changes and loose language in the contract. We will again have to fight scope and cabotage. We will have to attempt to get the reserves out of indentured servitude. As a result, there will be minimal financial gains and we will again lag behind Delta. After that, I'll retire, still looking for that brass ring and big bag of cash I was promised under the Elroy Jepp statue in Denver.

Airhoss

There will always be hard feelings and that are going to be caused by this merger. Hard feelings that are both real and imagined it makes no difference.

The difference comes in when we are all on the same sheet of paper IE JCBA and ISL then it becomes impossible for management to use the separate pilot groups as leverage against each other. Whether we like each other or not.

Tony Nelson

Not the 737-900ERs that were ordered after the merger. They are intended as UAL 757 replacements but will be hard pressed to go there without a JCBA.