CousinEddie

I just hope they pass the drug test when they get to the gate.

CousinEddie

Oh I get it. Keep the old contracts in place to save the A319s and such. The new one will make them go away and you will laugh at us. I should be reading more carefully and understanding contracts like you.



FAQ > SECTION 1 - SCOPE > CAN THE COMPANY REPLACE CURRENT NARROW BODY AIRCRAFT (A319/320) WITH ""NEW"" SMALL NARROW BODY AIRCRAFT (100 SEATERS, CS300, EMB 190/195)?"
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However unlikely that may be, no there is no such guarantee. If the company were to decide to replace our current fleet with a totally different fleet they could do that today, as could any other carrier. We suspect the SNB is likely going to give us the ability to fly to new destinations that aren’t cost effective today with either the 737/A320s aircraft type. Ultimately, where those aircraft fly will be the Marketing Departments decision.

LCAL dude

Quite a bit. The flight school-RJ guys didn't start showing up until late 2000 and were promptly furloughed after 9/11, and only came back to the RJ FO seat in 2005, so if they're at LCal they're junior FOs. The RJs mainline pilots gave away because they were too good to fly those "itty bitty jets that weren't real airplanes and and not a threat to their careers" didn't show up until 1998, and junior SLUF Captain at LCal is a '96ish Express/other regional/ex-military hire.

Pilots who got hired by the majors in the mid-90s (like some friends of mine) probably started at a regional in the '88-'91 era, when there was a pilot shortage and the regionals were only flying Jetstream, MetroLiner, or Bandit turboprops. I went through 4 instructors getting my ratings in the late 80s/early 90s because as soon as they got 50/500 they were gone. Those guys built time in turboprops and their first jet was a mainline 737, generally around 1994-onward.


To get hired at a regional airline in the mid-90s (like the junior LCal Captains) was highly competitive, my class had a bunch of corporate, ex-mil, and freight dogs, and I was the low time guy with 2,500 hours. After that we flew turboprops, getting a lot of experience doing multiple legs/day in the slag before the RJs started showing up in '98. We were RJ Captains before we got hired at LCal in 2000/01, and after 9/11 we got furloughed back to Express and spent another 4-5 years as RJ Captains flying mainline routes.

My generation has a lot of respect for any LUal pilot who has had to suffer through years in the right seat yanking gear in a 73/5/67, but any 7 year LCal 73 Captain already has several years as a jet Captain under their belt flying all over Canada, Mexico, and the U.S.. So when you're bashing LCal pilots, remember who the real enemy is. (Hint: he's in my avatar.)


Oh, and we voted down 2 contract at Express, got better ones the second time, and got Full Retro Pay. They have the money, we deserve the money, It can be done.

DaveNelson

Does anybody believe that there was ever a chance of instituting a national seniority list? ALPA could piece together any kind of list it wanted. Convincing Delta's management to hire United's pilots might have been a sticking point, though.

The "closed shop" concept, the old union hiring hall, went away with the Taft/Hartley Act of 1947. Corporations take a bit of umbrage when unions try to tell them whom they can and cannot hire.

Airhoss

A national seniority list sure worked well for the merchant marine industry.

Sunvox

Great work by all here. Nice to know that pilots at the world's largest airline can overcome politics and rationally discuss issues one at a time without succumbing to name calling and innuendo. I'm so proud to be a pilot and am sure that the thousands of outside viewers perusing our forum are just wishing they too could be pilots like us.


There is no "right" and "wrong" answer here. There is only your opinion so why not try to act a little more civil and use facts to explain why you came to YOUR opinion rather than denigrate those that don't share that opinion. Just a thought . . .
Joe Peck
IADFO

RedeyeAV8r

I personally think a National Seniority List is in all of our Long Term best interest, but.......Until there is One Union representing ALL US Pilots, a National Seniority list is worthless.

What would happen if ALPA had a national Seniority list but an ALPA carrier merges with a Non ALPA carrier......SWA and AirTran? What good is the list?or TWA and AMR (sorry to pull scab off an old wound)

What would happen when 2 independent carriers merge.....USairways and AA merge. What if some USair Westies (or Easties) are still inactive ALPA members?

What happens when non Union Upstarts get purchased by ALPA carriers. Virgin America, Allegiant or Jet Blue (jet Blue is no longer an upstart)

One Union one Voice...........I don't care if it is ALPA, USA Pilots Association or
"Judean People's Front" or the "Front of the Judean People" or People's Front of Judea" there would first need to be an organization representing ALL Pilots before a national Seniority list would have a chance of working.

Looking to the future, what happens when a Foreign Airline is purchased by an American Carrier, or worse when the Foreign Airline purchases an American Carrier? Delta - Virgin Atlantic or Emirates buys AMR?

Imapilot2

Lots of good info here. I wish you guys the best it will be a tough road ahead but I'm sure it will work out. One thought from an outsider...the comments about "sign it and get it over with" "something about moving on so you can level the playing field?" I'd be real careful with that idea about a contract. Especially with length. I'm sure there were guys at AA that thought that years ago...wait till the next contract. Their last signed contract was what? ten years ago? lets not forget how long a contract can go past its date. Just a thought. I really do hope that UAL gets back to the glory days.

DaveNelson

I don't know much about the merchant marine industry. But if it falls under the auspices of the Taft-Hartley Act, which I suppose it does because it's the law of the land in the United States, the closed shop is illegal.

In other words, you can do anything you want with a national seniority list on the union level. ALPA, APA, the UPS union, SWAPA, etc. could theoretically have a big arbitration and "merge" their lists. Good luck getting Southwest Airlines to let me bid the next captain vacancy over there that my "seniority holds."

There's no way a union can compel an employer to hire only members of that union. A union can negotiate agency shop provisions, making it mandatory that employees, once hired, either join the union or pay an agency shop fee. But the company makes the decision on who is hired.

Airhoss

The merchant marine industry in this country was a prime example of the pitfalls of a single seniority list but more so a glaring example of what happens when you allow cabotage.

Which is why you seldom if ever see a merchant vessel with a US registry. They are all registered in places like Liberia and crewed by third world nationals for the most part. This allows the corporations to bypass complicated safety issues and pay minimum wages.

Exactly the same thing that will occur if we ever let cabotage creep into our industry.

There is a great book out called "Looking for a ship" about the pitfalls of the modern merchant marine industry and the union politics involved. the single seniority list has had the opposite affect. You've got guys who were once super tanker captains taking jobs as deck hands now just to get a job.