Taking a picture of my "YES" vote now
12-06-2012, 03:37 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: B777 CA - SFO
Posts: 730
Try Our Real Quality United Experience
12-06-2012, 04:03 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,726
"Large faction", if that is an overstatement or an outright untruth I'll gladly take it back. However I've not seen any sign that the L-CAL side is concerned about the inevitable take over and disbanding of the L-UAL side if this TA goes down in flames. At this point I am looking out for my career and the careers of my brothers and sisters at L-UAL, if you take offense to that so be it.
I've been on the bottom side of this whipsaw for too long. Much to the unadulterated glee of many L-CAL folks here on APC I fully expect to get HAMMERED on the ISL. I'd rather get hammered in seniority and have a job than to see us get steam rolled by the L-CAL side. Which is exactly what is happening as we speak.
I see guys right here on this thread rationalizing how it's okay that a 6 or 7 year guys should be senior to me with 15+ years because they were regional guys for 5 or more years before they got hired at CAL. REALLY? How about the ten years I spent in the trenches before my 15 + years here at UAL? I guess that doesn't count right?
However the ISL turns out is how it turns out, we have no control over it but at least I'll know where I'm going to be and can plan accordingly from that point forward.
I've been on the bottom side of this whipsaw for too long. Much to the unadulterated glee of many L-CAL folks here on APC I fully expect to get HAMMERED on the ISL. I'd rather get hammered in seniority and have a job than to see us get steam rolled by the L-CAL side. Which is exactly what is happening as we speak.
I see guys right here on this thread rationalizing how it's okay that a 6 or 7 year guys should be senior to me with 15+ years because they were regional guys for 5 or more years before they got hired at CAL. REALLY? How about the ten years I spent in the trenches before my 15 + years here at UAL? I guess that doesn't count right?
However the ISL turns out is how it turns out, we have no control over it but at least I'll know where I'm going to be and can plan accordingly from that point forward.
12-06-2012, 04:24 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 430
"Large faction", if that is an overstatement or an outright untruth I'll gladly take it back. However I've not seen any sign that the L-CAL side is concerned about the inevitable take over and disbanding of the L-UAL side if this TA goes down in flames. At this point I am looking out for my career and the careers of my brothers and sisters at L-UAL, if you take offense to that so be it.
I've been on the bottom side of this whipsaw for too long. Much to the unadulterated glee of many L-CAL folks here on APC I fully expect to get HAMMERED on the ISL. I'd rather get hammered in seniority and have a job than to see us get steam rolled by the L-CAL side. Which is exactly what is happening as we speak.
I see guys right here on this thread rationalizing how it's okay that a 6 or 7 year guys should be senior to me with 15+ years because they were regional guys for 5 or more years before they got hired at CAL. REALLY? How about the ten years I spent in the trenches before my 15 + years here at UAL? I guess that doesn't count right?
However the ISL turns out is how it turns out, we have no control over it but at least I'll know where I'm going to be and can plan accordingly from that point forward.
I've been on the bottom side of this whipsaw for too long. Much to the unadulterated glee of many L-CAL folks here on APC I fully expect to get HAMMERED on the ISL. I'd rather get hammered in seniority and have a job than to see us get steam rolled by the L-CAL side. Which is exactly what is happening as we speak.
I see guys right here on this thread rationalizing how it's okay that a 6 or 7 year guys should be senior to me with 15+ years because they were regional guys for 5 or more years before they got hired at CAL. REALLY? How about the ten years I spent in the trenches before my 15 + years here at UAL? I guess that doesn't count right?
However the ISL turns out is how it turns out, we have no control over it but at least I'll know where I'm going to be and can plan accordingly from that point forward.
12-06-2012, 04:46 PM
#94
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 15
I see guys right here on this thread rationalizing how it's okay that a 6 or 7 year guys should be senior to me with 15+ years because they were regional guys for 5 or more years before they got hired at CAL. REALLY? How about the ten years I spent in the trenches before my 15 + years here at UAL? I guess that doesn't count right?
I can respect your reasons for voting for the TA. I just wonder why you seem intent on driving a wedge between our two groups and why you assume that we're all wearing backpacks with headphones on while coming fresh out of flight school.
12-06-2012, 07:16 PM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: B777 CA - SFO
Posts: 730
I think it is very relevant that a pilot chooses to obviously display an acrimonious and divisive symbol of our strained joint history.
12-06-2012, 07:27 PM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
PS. Good luck with that!
Last edited by APC225; 12-06-2012 at 07:38 PM.
12-06-2012, 09:50 PM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,726
L-CAL dude, wrote this... And it is the second time he has alluded to it in this thread.
And any Jr UAL guy who is currently yanking gear at L-UAL has 14+ years at UAL and the majority of which also were captains and military guys before being hired at UAL.
acwild writes..
Not an assumption on my part at all. If Mr. LCAL dude thinks it was tough to get hired by the regionals in the 90's I guess he doesn't understand how difficult it was to get hired by the "Majors" during that same time period when the most Jr guys remaining on the list at L-UAL were hired. We've ALL paid our dues some more than others.
If you think I'm disparaging the backgrounds of these pilots you are misunderstanding me. It's not about knowing more or less than me or anybody else. It's about where you wind up on the list after the ISL and what you can hold. And the longer we are in negotiations without a solution L-CAL continues to grow and put guys into the left seat who will be fenced in for years and UAL continues to shrink and we are left stagnant or moving backwards or worse. And I and many of my cohorts have had ENOUGH of this BS. I am not willing to watch hundreds more guys who have less than half my longevity take positions above what I can hold and lock me out for who only knows how much longer.
L-CAL guys saying "it isn't the pilots fault" are correct it isn't their fault, however it doesn't matter who's fault it is, our careers are on the line here. It's kind of like taking friendly fire, everybody is really sorry it happened but someone still got smoked and the other guy goes home. We're sorry about how this is going down, I feel for you guys, isn't going to pay the rent.
To get hired at a regional airline in the mid-90s (like the junior LCal Captains) was highly competitive, my class had a bunch of corporate, ex-mil, and freight dogs, and I was the low time guy with 2,500 hours. After that we flew turboprops, getting a lot of experience doing multiple legs/day in the slag before the RJs started showing up in '98. We were RJ Captains before we got hired at LCal in 2000/01, and after 9/11 we got furloughed back to Express and spent another 4-5 years as RJ Captains flying mainline routes.
My generation has a lot of respect for any LUal pilot who has had to suffer through years in the right seat yanking gear in a 73/5/67, but any 7 year LCal 73 Captain already has several years as a jet Captain under their belt flying all over Canada, Mexico, and the U.S..
My generation has a lot of respect for any LUal pilot who has had to suffer through years in the right seat yanking gear in a 73/5/67, but any 7 year LCal 73 Captain already has several years as a jet Captain under their belt flying all over Canada, Mexico, and the U.S..
acwild writes..
I think this is another assumption. Speaking for myself, I flew military air charters prior to CAL and it was much more challenging that what I do now. The "new guy" that I just flew with recently retired from the Air Force and was doing air shows in the F-15. While I can understand that you have your frustrations with how the ISL may turn out, it's pretty arrogant to assume that all "7 year captains" will know less than you. I know of some guys who have been flying 25+ years and they don't seem to show it when they show up to a check ride.
If you think I'm disparaging the backgrounds of these pilots you are misunderstanding me. It's not about knowing more or less than me or anybody else. It's about where you wind up on the list after the ISL and what you can hold. And the longer we are in negotiations without a solution L-CAL continues to grow and put guys into the left seat who will be fenced in for years and UAL continues to shrink and we are left stagnant or moving backwards or worse. And I and many of my cohorts have had ENOUGH of this BS. I am not willing to watch hundreds more guys who have less than half my longevity take positions above what I can hold and lock me out for who only knows how much longer.
L-CAL guys saying "it isn't the pilots fault" are correct it isn't their fault, however it doesn't matter who's fault it is, our careers are on the line here. It's kind of like taking friendly fire, everybody is really sorry it happened but someone still got smoked and the other guy goes home. We're sorry about how this is going down, I feel for you guys, isn't going to pay the rent.
12-06-2012, 10:54 PM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 73 CA EWR
Posts: 514
I've been on the bottom side of this whipsaw for too long. Much to the unadulterated glee of many L-CAL folks here on APC I fully expect to get HAMMERED on the ISL. I'd rather get hammered in seniority and have a job than to see us get steam rolled by the L-CAL side. Which is exactly what is happening as we speak.
12-06-2012, 10:56 PM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
That is what is happening and what you're seeing is the junior CAL pilots bidding to hold captain for the pay protection and/or fence coming out of the ISL. This will have no effect on the ISL, but it may lock in a seat or pay in spite of the ISL results.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
