TA Overview
11-14-2012, 06:02 AM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
10:45.
20-I-6-h-(1) Notwithstanding Section 20-K-5-a, a Reserve’s minimum Off-Duty Period at
his Base may be reduced to ten hours and forty-five minutes (10:45) following a Basic
Trip; the Reserve may waive this off-duty requirement. Notwithstanding Sections 20-K-
3-c-(8), such an assignment must be made by the time the Reserve has blocked in on the
last leg of his current assignment.
20-I-6-h-(1) Notwithstanding Section 20-K-5-a, a Reserve’s minimum Off-Duty Period at
his Base may be reduced to ten hours and forty-five minutes (10:45) following a Basic
Trip; the Reserve may waive this off-duty requirement. Notwithstanding Sections 20-K-
3-c-(8), such an assignment must be made by the time the Reserve has blocked in on the
last leg of his current assignment.
11-14-2012, 06:06 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
73 hour reserve guarantee, 70 hour line guarantee, only 6 immovable days off (essentially on call 25 days), training on your days off, double-pumped reserve days, outsourcing to USAir!! YGTBSM!! These are even concessionary to L-CAL, if you don't think they're concessionary to L-UAL then you are truly on board with Team FLIBS. We "put up with" the current crappy work rules because we had them shoved down our throats by the threat of bankrupcy. You vote for this POS, you own it.
2. 6 Holy days and 6 moveable RDOs is status quo to our contract. The 6 Holy days are consecutive and the RDOs are in 2 blocks of 3 or 3 blocks or 2. You cannot be assigned rsv duty on those days. They can only be moved if given a flying assignment (no other rsv available) on a rsv day (not RDO) and trip rolls onto the RDO. The RDO is restored. We have been doing this for my 15 yrs here. It works well.
The domestic RDOs are all immoveable except one. A BIG improvement for CAL
3. Double pump?? OK. After your 12:45 rest (14 block to block). That is no change here at UAL. BIG improvement for CAL
4. US AIR outsource? Again...status quo. No change. AMR will probably take care of this for us. Just like UAL stole CAL from Sky Team.
Sled
11-14-2012, 06:09 AM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
10:45.
20-I-6-h-(1) Notwithstanding Section 20-K-5-a, a Reserve’s minimum Off-Duty Period at
his Base may be reduced to ten hours and forty-five minutes (10:45) following a Basic
Trip; the Reserve may waive this off-duty requirement. Notwithstanding Sections 20-K-
3-c-(8), such an assignment must be made by the time the Reserve has blocked in on the
last leg of his current assignment.
20-I-6-h-(1) Notwithstanding Section 20-K-5-a, a Reserve’s minimum Off-Duty Period at
his Base may be reduced to ten hours and forty-five minutes (10:45) following a Basic
Trip; the Reserve may waive this off-duty requirement. Notwithstanding Sections 20-K-
3-c-(8), such an assignment must be made by the time the Reserve has blocked in on the
last leg of his current assignment.
Sled
11-14-2012, 06:14 AM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
We shouldn't spend negotiating capital on FAR's, and we should certainly travel on a pass classification that is appropriate for performing duty for our company that is commensurate with our profession and the respect this profession should bring. We need to be rested for our PC's. That isn't a 'get' the company gets a rested pilot for training. they benefit too.
Sled
11-14-2012, 06:24 AM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
I just want to make sure I'm understanding you....... I was hired at UAL in 99 and have 6 years and a few months of active service at UAL. If this TA is voted in I go to 4 year pay, down from the 7 year pay I would be at now. When the SLI is finished I might find myself junior to a 2008 CAL hire and remain at 4 years of longevity.
I can understand how I might eat a giant **** sandwich with the SLI but to say that my longevity is tied to the CAL pilot senior to me on the new SLI is the lettuce and tomato on my giant **** sandwich.
I know that I am going to get screwed in the SLI but to actually have longevity taken away from me that I already have is crazy! I was hired at UAL over 13 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You sound like you are ok with this part of the TA because I get a raise from 7th year UAL current pay of $86 an hour to the TA rate of $112 an hour on 4th year pay.
I can already smell a class action lawsuit brewing.
I can understand how I might eat a giant **** sandwich with the SLI but to say that my longevity is tied to the CAL pilot senior to me on the new SLI is the lettuce and tomato on my giant **** sandwich.
I know that I am going to get screwed in the SLI but to actually have longevity taken away from me that I already have is crazy! I was hired at UAL over 13 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You sound like you are ok with this part of the TA because I get a raise from 7th year UAL current pay of $86 an hour to the TA rate of $112 an hour on 4th year pay.
I can already smell a class action lawsuit brewing.
Sled
11-14-2012, 06:26 AM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
That stuff isn't a "get"
That's how you should treat your aircraft commanders and the people who make this airline run. The rest and augmentation stuff is all in the new FAR's. Why is that a "get"? It's not, it's just the future of the airline business because our management's were abusing us for too long and it caught up with them.
That's how you should treat your aircraft commanders and the people who make this airline run. The rest and augmentation stuff is all in the new FAR's. Why is that a "get"? It's not, it's just the future of the airline business because our management's were abusing us for too long and it caught up with them.
Sled
11-14-2012, 06:41 AM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Cap'n
Posts: 687
11-14-2012, 06:41 AM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 645
No offense, but as you say, you don't stand in the shoes of those that have been furloughed. Every pilot group has received full furlough credit with the exception of the 1436. This is a play by Pierce to gain an edge and staple us to the bottom of the list. You either do the right thing and stand with us, or you stand against us. As for money, this would prevent many of us from ever upgrading, costing us hundreds of thouands of dollars. You can do what is right for the profession or do what is right for Jsled. Keep in mind that the time will come when you will expect one of us to have your back, that is unless you are the perfect pilot.
First off. I don't think your Longevity will be reduced. Second. What does longevity get you? More years on your pension formula? No. It gets you seniority and pay. You said yourself that you will be eating a sheet sandwich on seniority (me too). So that leaves pay. Do you stand on principle and cut yourself out of a 30% + raise? IDK. I am not in your shoes as I was not furloughed, but it seems foolish.
Sled
Sled
11-14-2012, 06:43 AM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
There are so many concessions and gotchas contained in this POC, that it ought to be a slam dunk NO vote for MOST of us. I'm astonished at how bad this thing is.
Sled, as for the "gets" in this TA, I submit that you're picking corn out of something warm and steamy. I don't even know what to say, so I won't waste any time with your opinion. Have a great career.
As for the TA
The pay is marginal. End of contract Pay is industry leading
The scope is a show stopper. Ever see an RJ in SWA colors?
what about DAL and AMR? Do we compete with them? Our scope is the most restrictive vs DAL and AMR
The retro is completely unacceptable and an insult.
I agree with the insult part.
The reserve rules SUCK. 2.5 hours? In DC? In NYC? In SFO? LAX?
That's 3.5 to push or 30 min less than what we have now. AND, if less than 3 hours call out you can park in pay parking and expense it.
Involuntary JM - nope. They need more bodies? Hire them.
at 100% pay premium AFTER they have SRMed for 100% pay premium with no takers. I can live with that. BTW, you mentioned SWA earlier. They have IJA (involuntary junior assigned)
Increased Medical and Dental costs. Concessionary.
agreed.
The training pay is a joke.
3.75/3.0 vs 2.8? A month of transition pays 90 hours vs 84 now. PC pay is 34% higher (3.75 v 2.8)
VACA pay is concessionary.
compared to what we have? that don't make no sense James. 3.25 is a 16% increase.
Add on reassignments
etc
etc
etc
Its up to US now that the JNC has failed us so completely. Get out the NO vote.
7B in unrestricted cash. The only thing "industry leading" was the hubris with which this was unveiled.
Sled, as for the "gets" in this TA, I submit that you're picking corn out of something warm and steamy. I don't even know what to say, so I won't waste any time with your opinion. Have a great career.
As for the TA
The pay is marginal. End of contract Pay is industry leading
The scope is a show stopper. Ever see an RJ in SWA colors?
what about DAL and AMR? Do we compete with them? Our scope is the most restrictive vs DAL and AMR
The retro is completely unacceptable and an insult.
I agree with the insult part.
The reserve rules SUCK. 2.5 hours? In DC? In NYC? In SFO? LAX?
That's 3.5 to push or 30 min less than what we have now. AND, if less than 3 hours call out you can park in pay parking and expense it.
Involuntary JM - nope. They need more bodies? Hire them.
at 100% pay premium AFTER they have SRMed for 100% pay premium with no takers. I can live with that. BTW, you mentioned SWA earlier. They have IJA (involuntary junior assigned)
Increased Medical and Dental costs. Concessionary.
agreed.
The training pay is a joke.
3.75/3.0 vs 2.8? A month of transition pays 90 hours vs 84 now. PC pay is 34% higher (3.75 v 2.8)
VACA pay is concessionary.
compared to what we have? that don't make no sense James. 3.25 is a 16% increase.
Add on reassignments
etc
etc
etc
Its up to US now that the JNC has failed us so completely. Get out the NO vote.
7B in unrestricted cash. The only thing "industry leading" was the hubris with which this was unveiled.
Sled
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