TA in their hands
11-04-2012, 09:34 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: 747 Captain, retired
Posts: 928
The question should be: Where is ALPA National on this? Why are they allowing foot-dragging on one side that might de-rail the process and subsequently cause a loss of a large chunk of dues-paying members to pay their dues to some other organization.
There is suppose to be a process that is written down somewhere in the ALPA Merger rules and if not there darn well should be!
There is suppose to be a process that is written down somewhere in the ALPA Merger rules and if not there darn well should be!
11-04-2012, 10:05 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
The question should be: Where is ALPA National on this? Why are they allowing foot-dragging on one side that might de-rail the process and subsequently cause a loss of a large chunk of dues-paying members to pay their dues to some other organization.
There is suppose to be a process that is written down somewhere in the ALPA Merger rules and if not there darn well should be!
There is suppose to be a process that is written down somewhere in the ALPA Merger rules and if not there darn well should be!
Alpa national could care less I am afraid. If this fall through or is a terrible deal and our reps bring it to us alpa culd be in for a big suprise!
11-04-2012, 10:41 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
It's not that ALPA National cares or does not, the process is governed by the respective MEC's and the protocols/policy they jointly put in place. How that happens must stay within the CBA's of each airline and conform to the policy manual of each MEC. As long as the protocols stay within the framework and don't run afoul of the C&BL of ALPA National there isn't anything in which National can have a say.
11-04-2012, 11:12 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Yep, what you said....
Yeah, I agree.... All ALPA cares about is dues money.
ASAP cost nothing and was put in place by FAA and company goodwill. ALPA didn't do anything to force that program...
Aeromedical that has saved thousands of pilots from losing or getting their medical back is free.
HIMS is another "freebee" that companies wanted to give just to be "nice" to pilots who struggle with those diseases.
You'd probably have better work rules and payrates without ALPA EF&A being able to refute "company" claims on costing.
Expert labor lawyers who come in to save a pilots bacon when the company accuses them of something and threatens to fire them or dock months' of pay, we'd be so much better off if ALPA didn't have the money to keep attorneys on staff to represent us...
The recent IRA rollover provision that put hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars back into the hands of pilots whose pensions were terminated, without ALPA pushing hard I'm sure Congress and the IRA were just waiting with open wallets to give a VERY small minority of citizens a special rule that will give them a refund and interest on that money...
Fighting for the FFDO program that the TSA would love to cut, no ALPA efforts to save and expand that.
Getting CASS back so pilots can utilize jumpseats, no ALPA "care" for fighting for that....
Keeping the pressure on for KCM when the TSA was vehemently against it and dragging their feet, ALPA doesn't put any "care" into that.
When Branson and Emirates lobby to relax foreign ownership laws, ALPA is just doing nothing and collecting dues. I mean besides sending pilots repeatedly to the Hill every session to make sure Congress knows what their pilot constituents know is important and preventing detrimental changes for US pilots.
ALPA National went from 420+ full time employees pre-9/11, and cut head count to less than 330 over the last decade. Yeah, they can't stand trying to be as efficient as possible and judicious with member dues dollars...
The last two BOD meetings that voted to reduce the pay and stipends of national officers.
The most recent ALPA BOD meeting that voted to reduce dues
Aeromedical that has saved thousands of pilots from losing or getting their medical back is free.
HIMS is another "freebee" that companies wanted to give just to be "nice" to pilots who struggle with those diseases.
You'd probably have better work rules and payrates without ALPA EF&A being able to refute "company" claims on costing.
Expert labor lawyers who come in to save a pilots bacon when the company accuses them of something and threatens to fire them or dock months' of pay, we'd be so much better off if ALPA didn't have the money to keep attorneys on staff to represent us...
The recent IRA rollover provision that put hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars back into the hands of pilots whose pensions were terminated, without ALPA pushing hard I'm sure Congress and the IRA were just waiting with open wallets to give a VERY small minority of citizens a special rule that will give them a refund and interest on that money...
Fighting for the FFDO program that the TSA would love to cut, no ALPA efforts to save and expand that.
Getting CASS back so pilots can utilize jumpseats, no ALPA "care" for fighting for that....
Keeping the pressure on for KCM when the TSA was vehemently against it and dragging their feet, ALPA doesn't put any "care" into that.
When Branson and Emirates lobby to relax foreign ownership laws, ALPA is just doing nothing and collecting dues. I mean besides sending pilots repeatedly to the Hill every session to make sure Congress knows what their pilot constituents know is important and preventing detrimental changes for US pilots.
ALPA National went from 420+ full time employees pre-9/11, and cut head count to less than 330 over the last decade. Yeah, they can't stand trying to be as efficient as possible and judicious with member dues dollars...
The last two BOD meetings that voted to reduce the pay and stipends of national officers.
The most recent ALPA BOD meeting that voted to reduce dues
11-06-2012, 08:56 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
Original post update
Originally Posted by First post of thread
"Sometime today, your LEC representatives will have finally been brought inside the super-secret veil of the TA. With highlighters and red markers (lots of them!) in hand, we are now focused on thoroughly scrutinizing every line of this career-changing document.
For the next week or so, we will spend just about every waking moment (and likely many non-waking moments) assessing the quality of this potential agreement, after which both MECs will separately but simultaneously vote whether to send the TA out to the pilot group at large. That vote will likely take place approximately one week from today, unless we need more time to deliberate.
As you know, the NMB and the MEC Officers are requiring that we not discuss the contents yet. We share your frustration and think that is inappropriate; nonetheless, in order to do to our job, we must reluctantly comply. Rest assured that we have heard your requests, demands, and sentiments, and we will act accordingly."
For the next week or so, we will spend just about every waking moment (and likely many non-waking moments) assessing the quality of this potential agreement, after which both MECs will separately but simultaneously vote whether to send the TA out to the pilot group at large. That vote will likely take place approximately one week from today, unless we need more time to deliberate.
As you know, the NMB and the MEC Officers are requiring that we not discuss the contents yet. We share your frustration and think that is inappropriate; nonetheless, in order to do to our job, we must reluctantly comply. Rest assured that we have heard your requests, demands, and sentiments, and we will act accordingly."
What we actually received was the TA minus all of the LOAs. Technically speaking a TA; is not a complete TA until it includes all LOAs, MOUs, notes written on napkins (as long as they are signed by all parties), etc. So, while the book that we were initially given is fashionably being called the;contract language; or;contract body; it was not the complete and official "TA".
Nonetheless, for the past few days, we have been studying the TA (*minus the LOAs), however we do not yet have the complete TA (including all LOAs). We did receive the bulk of those LOAs late yesterday, excluding the; Lump Sum; LOA (which is currently being drafted, following today's decision from the arbitrator). Once we get those, we will officially have an official TA and we will officially be studying the official TA.
Well almost.
Aside from the Lump Sum LOA, there are still two other LOAs that are time-dependent, and therefore will not be included in the TA until we are reasonably close to voting. But we are now close enough for all practical purposes (and to the satisfaction of the MEC) to call it a TA and to proceed with our education of the TA.
Semantics aside, in the interest of not rushing and to allow enough time for your representatives to thoroughly study the TA, the MEC has decided that we will postpone our TA Ground School until we have all the pieces of paper we need. We now anticipate beginning ground school tomorrow. Based on that start date, we anticipate finishing ground school over the weekend, and after a few days of deliberation, could conceivably be ready to vote in roughly 7-10 days from today.
Our brothers on the UAL MEC have chosen to commence their ground school already, and that is completely their choice. We commend them for being proactive and motivated to delve into this TA. They have also invited members of the CAL MEC to attend as well, and some have taken them up on their offer. We have also extended the same courtesy to them when we start our training. As mentioned above, we have an independent timeline that we will follow and we will not vote until every single CAL MEC representative is comfortable and ready."
11-06-2012, 09:16 AM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 56
"Last week we sent out a blastmail stating that we had received the TA minus two LOAs. That blastmail started a small battle over semantics. Allow us to explain.
What we actually received was the TA minus all of the LOAs. Technically speaking a TA; is not a complete TA until it includes all LOAs, MOUs, notes written on napkins (as long as they are signed by all parties), etc. So, while the book that we were initially given is fashionably being called the;contract language; or;contract body; it was not the complete and official "TA".
Nonetheless, for the past few days, we have been studying the TA (*minus the LOAs), however we do not yet have the complete TA (including all LOAs). We did receive the bulk of those LOAs late yesterday, excluding the; Lump Sum; LOA (which is currently being drafted, following today's decision from the arbitrator). Once we get those, we will officially have an official TA and we will officially be studying the official TA.
Well almost.
Aside from the Lump Sum LOA, there are still two other LOAs that are time-dependent, and therefore will not be included in the TA until we are reasonably close to voting. But we are now close enough for all practical purposes (and to the satisfaction of the MEC) to call it a TA and to proceed with our education of the TA.
Semantics aside, in the interest of not rushing and to allow enough time for your representatives to thoroughly study the TA, the MEC has decided that we will postpone our TA Ground School until we have all the pieces of paper we need. We now anticipate beginning ground school tomorrow. Based on that start date, we anticipate finishing ground school over the weekend, and after a few days of deliberation, could conceivably be ready to vote in roughly 7-10 days from today.
Our brothers on the UAL MEC have chosen to commence their ground school already, and that is completely their choice. We commend them for being proactive and motivated to delve into this TA. They have also invited members of the CAL MEC to attend as well, and some have taken them up on their offer. We have also extended the same courtesy to them when we start our training. As mentioned above, we have an independent timeline that we will follow and we will not vote until every single CAL MEC representative is comfortable and ready."
What we actually received was the TA minus all of the LOAs. Technically speaking a TA; is not a complete TA until it includes all LOAs, MOUs, notes written on napkins (as long as they are signed by all parties), etc. So, while the book that we were initially given is fashionably being called the;contract language; or;contract body; it was not the complete and official "TA".
Nonetheless, for the past few days, we have been studying the TA (*minus the LOAs), however we do not yet have the complete TA (including all LOAs). We did receive the bulk of those LOAs late yesterday, excluding the; Lump Sum; LOA (which is currently being drafted, following today's decision from the arbitrator). Once we get those, we will officially have an official TA and we will officially be studying the official TA.
Well almost.
Aside from the Lump Sum LOA, there are still two other LOAs that are time-dependent, and therefore will not be included in the TA until we are reasonably close to voting. But we are now close enough for all practical purposes (and to the satisfaction of the MEC) to call it a TA and to proceed with our education of the TA.
Semantics aside, in the interest of not rushing and to allow enough time for your representatives to thoroughly study the TA, the MEC has decided that we will postpone our TA Ground School until we have all the pieces of paper we need. We now anticipate beginning ground school tomorrow. Based on that start date, we anticipate finishing ground school over the weekend, and after a few days of deliberation, could conceivably be ready to vote in roughly 7-10 days from today.
Our brothers on the UAL MEC have chosen to commence their ground school already, and that is completely their choice. We commend them for being proactive and motivated to delve into this TA. They have also invited members of the CAL MEC to attend as well, and some have taken them up on their offer. We have also extended the same courtesy to them when we start our training. As mentioned above, we have an independent timeline that we will follow and we will not vote until every single CAL MEC representative is comfortable and ready."
11-06-2012, 09:35 PM
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 56
Now that we have a Dem in the White House I fully expect this AIP to be voted down by at least one (LUAL) of the MECs. I think this AIP/TA was a hedge in case Romney won.
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