Retro Pay vs Signing Bonus: Attn B3's
09-07-2012, 11:05 AM
#12
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
I have always preferred an equitably distributed lump sum by seat/longevity versus a retro based on credit hours flown during negotiations.
It keeps the open time whor#s who have been "helping the company"
from profiteering. It also might discourage a few pilots from ho'ing themselves out in the next round, knowing they won't get any extra from being "helpful".
The key is making sure that the amount is spread equitably.
It keeps the open time whor#s who have been "helping the company"
from profiteering. It also might discourage a few pilots from ho'ing themselves out in the next round, knowing they won't get any extra from being "helpful".The key is making sure that the amount is spread equitably.
I expect Capt's should get more of a bonus than FO's.. and probably some sort of longevity in play too.
But don't kid yourself.. it won't be called 'Retro', it will be a signing bonus. For numerous reasons.
Motch
09-07-2012, 11:24 AM
#13
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 15
Faith and respect are earned and should not be given blindly, imo.
09-07-2012, 12:15 PM
#14
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
I am ready to Strike, I am ready to Picket. Just waiting for my "Union" to give me the word.
They say we should do no self actions that might be detrimental to the cause.. ok, I get that.
But how long do you expect all of us to wait? Until we've waited so long that 51% will Vote in a ****ty contract just because their tired of waiting?
I want Leadership.
We have asked to be released now 3 times (I believe).. nothing.
I just got a Blastmail from Council 153 (LAX) to be ready to Picket on Monday if the negotiations (which they now say are extended into the weekend) don't bear fruit.
Anyone wanna bet that we get word Sunday night that things have progressed further and that the AIP's should be put into TA language by October?
Linda P and the NMB, plus the Union.. got their wish. We will not be released to Self Help before the election.
So back to your point. We have shown our "resolve".. we stand ready to back up our threat of a Strike. What more do you want?
Again, I have a number that is required for me to Vote YES on any JCBA with regards to Retro/Signing bonus. I don't care what they call it, I just know what my number is. It's based on (an honest) assessment of what I should have been making, what my friends at other carriers were making, the lack of Dignity & Respect, the loss of QoL, my loss of B Fund contribution (and what those funds would have earned over the past few years!) and the penalty for the company playing these games.
Tell me what that has to do with your statement~
Motch
PS> Noticed you just started posting.. interesting that you would jump into this subject..
09-07-2012, 12:22 PM
#15
Pilot Response
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 479
I have always preferred an equitably distributed lump sum by seat/longevity versus a retro based on credit hours flown during negotiations.
It keeps the open time whor#s who have been "helping the company" from profiteering. It also might discourage a few pilots from ho'ing themselves out in the next round, knowing they won't get any extra from being "helpful".
The key is making sure that the amount is spread equitably.
It keeps the open time whor#s who have been "helping the company"
from profiteering. It also might discourage a few pilots from ho'ing themselves out in the next round, knowing they won't get any extra from being "helpful".The key is making sure that the amount is spread equitably.
IMHO: Difference in pay rates X Credit hours since 1 Jan 10 or 1 Jan 09= $$
Call it what you like. Oh and B or B&C funds as well
09-07-2012, 12:48 PM
#16
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
Now, if you basically say, for your fleet, seat and base- what is the average line holder hours.. say it's 84 for June, 86 for July, 85 for Aug and 79 for Sept.. etc, then you "could" easily come up with a number and times that by the difference in pay then vs. what the pay should have been. Of course, how do you come up with a payscale for 09, 10, 11 and 12 IF we get a JCBA that takes effect 1 Jan 2013?
Alot of cans of worms open up here!
That's why I say, everyone needs to have their minimum number in their head. (oh, and my grows monthly as we're delayed)..
I would love X, but my min is Z.. hopefully the number is Y.
The question becomes- based on your statement..
Should the Scab Capt, who Volunteered to sit right seat, at 150% VJM pay.. get more Retro/Signing Bonus than the Line Capt who just flew his line,... no more, no less.
I don't think so.
Food for thought~
Motch
09-07-2012, 01:07 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
Problem with that is, it rewards to "saviors" who picked up VJM at 150% even more!
......
Should the Scab Capt, who Volunteered to sit right seat, at 150% VJM pay.. get more Retro/Signing Bonus than the Line Capt who just flew his line,... no more, no less.
I don't think so.
Food for thought~
Motch
......
Should the Scab Capt, who Volunteered to sit right seat, at 150% VJM pay.. get more Retro/Signing Bonus than the Line Capt who just flew his line,... no more, no less.
I don't think so.
Food for thought~
Motch
09-07-2012, 01:24 PM
#18
Pilot Response
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 479
Problem with that is, it rewards to "saviors" who picked up VJM at 150% even more!
Now, if you basically say, for your fleet, seat and base- what is the average line holder hours.. say it's 84 for June, 86 for July, 85 for Aug and 79 for Sept.. etc, then you "could" easily come up with a number and times that by the difference in pay then vs. what the pay should have been. Of course, how do you come up with a payscale for 09, 10, 11 and 12 IF we get a JCBA that takes effect 1 Jan 2013?
Alot of cans of worms open up here!
That's why I say, everyone needs to have their minimum number in their head. (oh, and my grows monthly as we're delayed)..
I would love X, but my min is Z.. hopefully the number is Y.
The question becomes- based on your statement..
Should the Scab Capt, who Volunteered to sit right seat, at 150% VJM pay.. get more Retro/Signing Bonus than the Line Capt who just flew his line,... no more, no less.
I don't think so.
Food for thought~
Motch
Now, if you basically say, for your fleet, seat and base- what is the average line holder hours.. say it's 84 for June, 86 for July, 85 for Aug and 79 for Sept.. etc, then you "could" easily come up with a number and times that by the difference in pay then vs. what the pay should have been. Of course, how do you come up with a payscale for 09, 10, 11 and 12 IF we get a JCBA that takes effect 1 Jan 2013?
Alot of cans of worms open up here!
That's why I say, everyone needs to have their minimum number in their head. (oh, and my grows monthly as we're delayed)..
I would love X, but my min is Z.. hopefully the number is Y.
The question becomes- based on your statement..
Should the Scab Capt, who Volunteered to sit right seat, at 150% VJM pay.. get more Retro/Signing Bonus than the Line Capt who just flew his line,... no more, no less.
I don't think so.
Food for thought~
Motch
09-07-2012, 01:30 PM
#19
Banned
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 244
Problem with that is, it rewards to "saviors" who picked up VJM at 150% even more!
Now, if you basically say, for your fleet, seat and base- what is the average line holder hours.. say it's 84 for June, 86 for July, 85 for Aug and 79 for Sept.. etc, then you "could" easily come up with a number and times that by the difference in pay then vs. what the pay should have been. Of course, how do you come up with a payscale for 09, 10, 11 and 12 IF we get a JCBA that takes effect 1 Jan 2013?
Alot of cans of worms open up here!
That's why I say, everyone needs to have their minimum number in their head. (oh, and my grows monthly as we're delayed)..
I would love X, but my min is Z.. hopefully the number is Y.
The question becomes- based on your statement..
Should the Scab Capt, who Volunteered to sit right seat, at 150% VJM pay.. get more Retro/Signing Bonus than the Line Capt who just flew his line,... no more, no less.
I don't think so.
Food for thought~
Motch
Now, if you basically say, for your fleet, seat and base- what is the average line holder hours.. say it's 84 for June, 86 for July, 85 for Aug and 79 for Sept.. etc, then you "could" easily come up with a number and times that by the difference in pay then vs. what the pay should have been. Of course, how do you come up with a payscale for 09, 10, 11 and 12 IF we get a JCBA that takes effect 1 Jan 2013?
Alot of cans of worms open up here!
That's why I say, everyone needs to have their minimum number in their head. (oh, and my grows monthly as we're delayed)..
I would love X, but my min is Z.. hopefully the number is Y.
The question becomes- based on your statement..
Should the Scab Capt, who Volunteered to sit right seat, at 150% VJM pay.. get more Retro/Signing Bonus than the Line Capt who just flew his line,... no more, no less.
I don't think so.
Food for thought~
Motch
Signing bonus is just another way to reward the top. Pay what each pilot is owed regardless of seat, not how may stripes are on their shoulders!
09-07-2012, 02:00 PM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 56
Maybe you would like to expand on this statement?
I am ready to Strike, I am ready to Picket. Just waiting for my "Union" to give me the word.
They say we should do no self actions that might be detrimental to the cause.. ok, I get that.
But how long do you expect all of us to wait? Until we've waited so long that 51% will Vote in a ****ty contract just because their tired of waiting?
I want Leadership.
We have asked to be released now 3 times (I believe).. nothing.
I just got a Blastmail from Council 153 (LAX) to be ready to Picket on Monday if the negotiations (which they now say are extended into the weekend) don't bear fruit.
Anyone wanna bet that we get word Sunday night that things have progressed further and that the AIP's should be put into TA language by October?
Linda P and the NMB, plus the Union.. got their wish. We will not be released to Self Help before the election.
So back to your point. We have shown our "resolve".. we stand ready to back up our threat of a Strike. What more do you want?
Again, I have a number that is required for me to Vote YES on any JCBA with regards to Retro/Signing bonus. I don't care what they call it, I just know what my number is. It's based on (an honest) assessment of what I should have been making, what my friends at other carriers were making, the lack of Dignity & Respect, the loss of QoL, my loss of B Fund contribution (and what those funds would have earned over the past few years!) and the penalty for the company playing these games.
Tell me what that has to do with your statement~
Motch
PS> Noticed you just started posting.. interesting that you would jump into this subject..
I am ready to Strike, I am ready to Picket. Just waiting for my "Union" to give me the word.
They say we should do no self actions that might be detrimental to the cause.. ok, I get that.
But how long do you expect all of us to wait? Until we've waited so long that 51% will Vote in a ****ty contract just because their tired of waiting?
I want Leadership.
We have asked to be released now 3 times (I believe).. nothing.
I just got a Blastmail from Council 153 (LAX) to be ready to Picket on Monday if the negotiations (which they now say are extended into the weekend) don't bear fruit.
Anyone wanna bet that we get word Sunday night that things have progressed further and that the AIP's should be put into TA language by October?
Linda P and the NMB, plus the Union.. got their wish. We will not be released to Self Help before the election.
So back to your point. We have shown our "resolve".. we stand ready to back up our threat of a Strike. What more do you want?
Again, I have a number that is required for me to Vote YES on any JCBA with regards to Retro/Signing bonus. I don't care what they call it, I just know what my number is. It's based on (an honest) assessment of what I should have been making, what my friends at other carriers were making, the lack of Dignity & Respect, the loss of QoL, my loss of B Fund contribution (and what those funds would have earned over the past few years!) and the penalty for the company playing these games.
Tell me what that has to do with your statement~
Motch
PS> Noticed you just started posting.. interesting that you would jump into this subject..
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