syd111

Would be even easier if we started merging our cal alpa brothers in on the date they joined alpa and proceed from there.

liquid

...........................

Outsider

In the beginning there was only opinion and there was chaos.
After a time it was discovered that those with the biggest sticks could and would exert their opinion over others.
But alas it came to light that those with the biggest sticks were involved and concerned only with the size of their stick.
And there was chaos and the sting of the stick.
Then one day someone said, “Is there no way out of this chaos”?
And someone from one of the back rows around the campfire said, ”Why don’t we use seniority”.
And there was a hush.
Then someone asked, “What is that”?
And someone said, “how about the day you left the farm and showed up here”.
And they agreed that while not a perfect solution, it did rid them of the chaos and discrimination of opinion and by default; the sticks and sting thereof.
And there was peace in the land at last.
Then long after the chaos and the sting had been forgotten a small group, unsatisfied with their lot, thought, “hey, our opinions should have some validity”.
Realized by some that calling it what it is might bring back the awful memories, they disguised it by couching it in euphemisms such as relative seniority, protection and interpretation hoping it wouldn’t be recognized or remembered.
And so it came to pass that many carry this banner without the benefit of the lessons or sting of the past.
But we can all hope for the day when opinion will be the better choice.

Ps I actually have no dog in this race or at this campfire, I’m retired, so just my opinion, ha.

SpecialTracking

Sorry Syd, there are some in Cal alpa who are not and never will be my brothers.

syd111

Oh I sure know that feeling.

Short Bus Drive

So being hired by CAL, they are not "on property" at UCH?!
I understand they are furloughed from UAL, but are now working for CAL (which has "merged" with UAL)...

SO any new hire off the street at CAL, let's say in November, would be placed above the guys/gals hired at CAL through the T&PA in the last few months, since they are "furloughed" from UAL still?

I guess I am not making my question clear. Nevermind.

B727gypsy

Liquid,

July 13, 2009 CO/UA received anti-trust immunity to coordinate routes and schedules. (nearly a year prior to the merger announcement).

Immediately after receiveing immunity the "merger" began in everything but name only. The lower B gates in ORD were evacuated by UA to make room for CO flights which grew continually even before the official merger.

You can argue that it doesn't matter, but the facts are that the "merging" began way before May 2010.

Gypsy


DOT Approves Continental/United/Lufthansa/Air Canada Antitrust Immunity with Limited Carveouts - CBS News





Despite the Department of Justice's objections, the Department of Transportation has moved ahead in approving two proposals that will significantly benefit the carriers involved as well as the traveling public:

1. Antitrust immunity has been approved for Continental to join the Air Canada, Austrian, bmi, LOT, Lufthansa, Swiss, TAP, and United agreement that already exists. This allows them to collaborate on pricing and schedules over the Atlantic.
2. The bigger news is that United, Lufthansa, Continental, and Air Canada have had their joint venture, called Atlantic Plus Plus, approved with antitrust immunity. This will expand upon the existing agreement between United and Lufthansa which currently splits revenue between the two on most Transatlantic flying.,/li>

The DOT did give a nod to the DOJ by putting out some limited carveouts, but these are fairly limited. This is a big step for the alliance.





In the DOT's final order (PDF), it made the determination that this alliance is a good idea for the following reasons (directly quoted from the DOT):

• First, the public benefits possible through an immunized alliance are not available through other means. Ownership restrictions preclude truly integrated joint ventures or mergers, similar to those pursued in other industries, among U.S. and foreign air carriers, and the Joint Applicants have demonstrated that they will not proceed without immunity.
• Second, immunity enables the Joint Applicants to coordinate fares, services, and schedules so that consumers are offered a broader array of choices within the alliance than could be offered without immunity.
• Third, when alliances offer broader mixes of products, supporting the objective of offering service "from anywhere to everywhere," an alliance faces competitive pressure both from other carriers in particular city-pair markets and from other alliances offering global network connectivity.
• Finally, the vast majority of transatlantic passengers use connecting services and benefit from the improved connecting products at lower fares that integrated alliances provide. Even for those passengers who choose nonstop travel, the existence of coordinated connecting services offered by integrated alliances disciplines fares on nonstop routes.

SEDPA

So UAL started to right-size for the eventual full merger well before the actual merger ... exactly when then did this start, and exactly how many UAL pilots were affected?

jumppilot

Fact of the matter is no one on this board has any say. Everyone here has good opinions, albeit biased based on where they are.

Let's just get this over with and move on. I'll be happy as long as the furloughed UAL pilots go below me....oh dang, there's that bias again.

It's out of our hands.

intrepidcv11

As one who suffered through many horrifically delayed 16:45 EWR-ORD turns, I can assure you that CAL mainline was doing plenty of ORD flying in 2010. CAL always was willing to stick an RJ on an off peak time like say 10:15 or on a weekend rather then fly a 2/3rds full 73. For the commuter on a weekend that full RJ is a pain in the @ss. That's wear alot of the grumbling you were hearing was coming from.