13n144e

That's an extremely generous way of looking at it. If they were weren't needed when they were hired then they shouldn't have been hired in the first place. It is what it is though and nothing is going to change it because the respective lists cannot be re-ordered - even if it did go straight DOH (which it won't). Apparently the realization hasn't sunk in over at L-UAL that most Express guys travel at their original Express hire date as well...

Wrsofked

Absolutely! You should get some credit for your longevity. For discussions sake, say you have 10 years longevity and your 90%
on the list and a CAL guy has 8 years and is 65%, I would think the two of you would end up somewhere fairly close to each other on the list.

Like I said...don't want a windfall or to screw anybody. Just fair..basically wherever you are now, that's real close to where you should be on a new list.

Longevity is gained while working...longevity "credit" might be applied to guys not working, for pay purposes. But to assume longevity for seniority while your on furlough is just ridiculous to me. How do you accrue longevity when your not on property?

XHooker

Can't disagree with anything you say. The travel issue is even stranger than the seniority issue. The manner in which it was applied never seemed logical or equitable.

Wrsofked

It was contractual, negotiated and agreed upon. Those class dates came up and those guys were deferred due to staffing. Typical management deal, didn't really know how many guys they would need. Thats why those protections were there in the first place. That part (the deferrals) of the deal was in the contract as well.

Wrsofked

COEX was a wholly owned subsidiary of Main Line, everybody, rampers, gate agents, all the employees had the same pass class as main line, and their date of hire for travel on both main line and express. It was a great deal admittedly.

Mwindaji

Yes they are two different airlines. However, I would say that CAL had to deal with Lumpy and Jeffedup after Gordo. Not exactly what I would call great management. UAL has better work rules and one could argue if UAL had CAL work rules they would of had less pilots. Only thing that has saved CAL flying during this merger has been scabs picking up VJM. Well maybe not all scabs picking up VJM but they fit into that list as far as I am concerned. The contract that Jeff wants is CAL work rules and UAL pay.

Coto Pilot

Longevity while on furlough would be date of hire when considering SLI. I think most United furloughees are expecting to get longevity credit for the time they were actively working on the property for purposes of SLI and longevity credit as in date of hire for pay, vacation etc. That is one one of the tenets of the ALPA merger policy. Others are status and equipment, career expectations and that no group shall have a windfall over the other. There are many that seem to think a furloughed pilot has no career expectation. That is rediculous. If you look up the definition of career, it is an individuals life work. A furloughed pilot has a legal right to recall for up to 10 years at United. If a United pilot would have been number one on the United list when he retired and a 747 captain, he will still be the number one pilot and a 747 pilot after his is recalled. He still has the expectation, it has just been temporarily interupted. As for windfall, United maintains and has on order a much larger fleet of widebody aircraft. I think Continental had 25 787's on order and United had 25 787's as well as 25 Airbus A350's. A United pilot, furloughed or not had a greater expectation of flying a widebody. Although a Continental pilot may presently have a higher hourly pay rate, the United pilot works under better working conditions and has a higher B fund contribution. This is all moot as both groups anticipated receiving new non concessionary contracts which would probably be fairly close to each other. We will see what an arbitrator eventually determines, but a decision has never been rendered under the current ALPA guidelines.

Wrsofked

Agree completely...and I imagine career expectations won't be huge differences.

Wrsofked

You got me there. I was throwing out the Jeff years. Don't get me wrong, I realize it's easier to manage when you have slaves for workers. I was merely trying to point out the difference in the success level of the two carriers for the last ten years.

Don't think it was only that group VJMing this summer. It was a lot of pilots. Nothing decent stayed in open time for a millisecond when they were offering VJM. FO's were just a s rampantly picking it up as Captains. We are our own worst enemy at times.

SEDPA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coto Pilot

Longevity while on furlough would be date of hire when considering SLI. I think most United furloughees are expecting to get longevity credit for the time they were actively working on the property for purposes of SLI and longevity credit as in date of hire for pay, vacation etc. "

Ok, which one is it ... is the ALPA merger policy longevity "add on" active time or DOH ... you say in the first sentence it's DOH for SLI, and in the second sentence you say it's active time for SLI ... what did ALPA mean when they modified the policy to include "longevity"???

Let's say I am #500 from the bottom of the UAL seniority list ... when (or if??) I get a recall notice (from UAL, not UCH), the day I get back on property, there will be no one below me, and all the active UAL pilots above me, and I will hold what ever status/equipment that the bottom guy can hold ... once the last 499 are recalled, at best, I will have 499 below me, and again, my seniorty will dictate what status/equipment I hold. Now, lets say I do get my recall notice, but it's from the new united aka UCH, and it's post SLI ...on day one, if I have anyone below me, how is that not a WINDFALL??? Why would longevity credit for furlough time trumph the "no windfall" tenant?? Seriously, I'm not trying to flame or incite, but just trying to understand the argument.

Thanks.