syd111

Never mind not worth commenting on.

cadetdrivr

Concerns? Yes. There should always be concerns.

But...talking about lawsuits over actions that have not yet happened, but potentially could occur, despite the fact that resolutions are totally non-binding and concerning a TA that does not yet even exist?

Yeah, I think the cart might be leading the horse a bit.

Old UCAL CA

Time for decaf and a valium...all of you.

stknrdr

Would someone please briefly define what is covered under Section 5, Hours of Service? Thank you.

APC225

Subject: We Have An Agreement-In-Principle: Now What?

August 9, 2012

To: United Pilots

From: United MEC Communications Committee

“We have an Agreement in Principle (AIP) … Now what?”
With the recent announcement of an agreement-in-principle (AIP) between ALPA and the company on all major economic items, the most likely question pilots have is “Now what?” The process from today to signed contract is not nearly as rapid as many assume. It is important for you to understand the details so you are better informed on what is happening and when. We are supplying the facts so you can manage your expectations absent the usual rumor and “line logic.”

First, while we have resolved the major sections of the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA), we do not have an AIP on the entire JCBA. There remain a handful of items to be resolved. The Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) will be working with the appropriate MEC committees to get these dangling items closed out as soon as possible.

The following is a chart reflecting the current status of the JCBA by Section:

JCBA Proposal Status
Section Current status Open Items
Section 1 - Scope AIP 0
Section 2 - Definitions Open
Section 3 - Compensation AIP 0
Section 4 - Expenses, Lodging, Transportation Open 1
Section 5 - Hours of Service Open 3
Section 6 - Seniority AIP 0
Section 7 - RIF AIP 0
Section 8 - Filling of Vacancies AIP 0
Section 9 - Training AIP 0
Section 10 - Moving AIP 0
Section 11 - Vacation AIP 0
Section 12 - Leaves of Absence AIP 0
Section 13 - Sick Leave AIP 0
Section 14 - Physical Exams AIP 0
Section 15 - Worker's Comp AIP 0
Section 16 - Missing AIP 0
Section 17 - Grievances AIP 0
Section 18 - System Board AIP 0
Section 19 - Safety AIP 0
Section 20 - Allocation, Assignment, and Scheduling AIP 0
Section 21 - General AIP 0
Section 22 - International AIP 0
Section 23 - Instructors AIP 0
Section 24 - R & I Open 1
Section 25 - Duration AIP 0
LOA - GUAM AIP 0
LOA - Trip Trading AIP 0
LOA Proposal Open 1

Additionally, the National Mediation Board (NMB) has reiterated that it retains jurisdiction over our negotiations “until the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) has been ratified and signed by the parties.” The release of specific proposals will not occur before there is a final language agreement and the MEC has had a chance to act upon it. “The status quo provisions of the Railway Labor Act remain in effect. . . The continuation of the NMB Gag Order will preserve the parties' ability to synchronize the release of the Tentative Agreement (TA) which is critical in cases that involve a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement.”

Since last week, the JNC began work on the translation of the mountain of notes and documents that have accumulated throughout the negotiations. These papers are the records from months of negotiations and must be rendered into the legal language that will, if approved by the MECs and the pilots, become our contract. This process, even under the best of circumstances, will likely take some time to complete. But everyone on all sides seems committed to completing this process as soon as feasible.

After the AIP is converted into legal language, it is called a Tentative Agreement or TA and is presented to both UAL and CAL MECs for individual approval. Based upon the more restrictive of the two MEC Policy Manuals, the MECs will have up to 10 days to consider the Tentative Agreement, and receive briefings and ask questions of the applicable subject matter experts and negotiators before an acceptance vote.

If the TA is approved by both MECs, then a schedule of “town hall” meetings will be published where the details of the Tentative Agreement will be presented to the pilots at each domicile. The “town hall” process could take up to but no longer than 45 days based upon the number of domiciles and policy. Additionally, concurrent with the “town hall” meetings, a ballot will be sent to all pilots by mail. ALPA telephone and internet voting procedures will be used as they have been in previous ALPA balloting. The recommended period for a vote of this magnitude is 15 days at a minimum but usually lasts at least 30 days. This period can be modified by the MECs, at their discretion. The pilots of both legacy airlines will vote on the contract and all votes from the entire group will be totaled (unlike the MEC’s separate approval of the TA) to determine the outcome. If the TA is voted down, it is returned to both MECs.

If the TA is approved by a majority vote, then the contract is signed by the company representatives, ALPA International President Capt. Lee Moak, the UAL- and CAL-MEC Chairmen and the Joint Negotiating Committee. While the company may take some time to change the pay scales and hourly rates in its payroll system (hopefully there won’t be any errors), the new contract rates will be effective on the date of signing. Some of the work rule changes in the contract will also take effect on the date of signing while others, like vacation bidding, will have to wait until the Seniority List Integration (SLI) process has been completed. Others, like PBS and numerous scheduling changes, will take some time to implement due to IT issues. These issues are routinely handled in one or more Implementation LOAs, yet to be negotiated, that sets out timelines and equitable implementation procedures. Rest assured, your JNC understands that the company can’t get its benefits from this contract until we get ours.

So, for those of you nervously doing the math, the amount of time from the announcement of an AIP by the Negotiating Committee to contract signing in the most expeditious circumstances is several weeks – and again, we do not have an entire AIP yet. Please use this as a guide to answer the question “When is the earliest that I will see a pay raise reflected in my pay statement?”

Throughout the “town hall” and TA approval and voting process, we will be providing you with additional information, Q&A mailings and other means for your questions. If you have questions that are not being answered via the Q&A, send them as a reply to this email and the Communications Committee will make certain that you get answers as they are known. We will continue to keep you apprised of any information as it becomes available.

JCBA Ratification Timeline

The timeline above is all from our Policy Manual, Volume II. The only reference to any ratification time line is contained in the ALPA Administrative Manual, Section 90, ALPA Voting Procedures, Part 5, General Membership Ballots and Part 6, Guidelines for Membership Ratification Balloting.

Part 6 is a “guideline,” which in ALPA parlance means optional but recommended. The only timeline reference is, “The mailing is made at least 15 days in advance of the deadline date for return mailing of the ballot.” This essentially means that ALPA recommends the ballot remain open for at least 15 days, primarily to leave time to fix any administrative issues regarding voter eligibly as members try to vote.

The deadlines referenced in our policy manual are deadlines that can often be completed in a much shorter timeline than outlined above. For instance, the pro-con statement can be completed as quickly as the authors can submit their statements, if necessary. Likewise, the explanatory video can be completed much sooner than 45 days.

The opening of the ballot is typically done much sooner than 30 days after the MECs' vote. The 45 day limit for roadshows can also be accelerated if it is believed a full 45 days roadshow schedule is not necessary. The closing of voting ballots may be beyond the 45 days.

Ottolillienthal

The Senior Pilots Coalition, and Friends of Pfred are working hard on age 67. I know this for a fact. ALPA has not come out fomrmally on the record, and anyone "in the know" simply is not in the "know." It will come up for a vote before Congress, and it will happen before the Thanksgiving break.

The only possible suit you have is a "DFR" suit. But, as long as the MEC follows procedure you really don't have one. You would have to prove they violated their duty of fair representation somewhere in the process.

You are very correct that many pilots would be furloughed with DAL scope. More to the point is that management would simply attrit pilots and likely NOT furlough as it would take some time, about 2 years to fully implement any major changes in scope as it would take time to acquire, staff, and train a new RJ fleet. So, in essence, attrition, over 2 years would nullify/negate Smisek's RJ fleet as it would be too costly to furlough for short term reasons.

The wild card here would be retirement age. If the senior pilots coalition succeeds, then of course a furlough would have to take place. The timing of all of this is suspicious to me. Right now, I would prefer that the MEC delay any votes on the TA, or shoot it down until after Thanksgiving so that we can see how age 67 plays out.

Once we know where age 67 really is, then and only then will we be in a position to evaluate any actual changes in scope langauge and/or quantify those effects on the pilot group. Those effects are: seniority, percentage of increase/decrease in BES, position from the bottom in the event of furlough. Any changes in scope would also necessitate a look at flow-back provisions, as this is a must!!! You can't take away our domestic growth opportunities and not give us a place to fall back on should their little experiment fail.

No one shot me down on age 67. You don't hear the grey beards talking about it because they don't want us to know what they are up to. But, their friends and friends of phred all talk. Just flew with three very very big shots at the company. They all claim it is in the works, and they are supposedly working around ALPA.

cadetdrivr

Nothing big, only all the work rules.

Ottolillienthal

Now what?

I would start reading everything you can, and compare it to data from multiple sources.

1. read company garbage
2. read union communications
3. read everything else
4. look for hidden agendas
5. don't talk to anyone that is a "company man", or over 60 (ish) instructor pilot or check airman. Talk to people that have long term "skin in the game."

APC225

“We have an Agreement in Principle (AIP) … Now what?”

then later,

"....and again, we do not have an entire AIP yet."

I don't get it. Based on this logic, when they completed the single section two years ago, say "Missing," they could have declared an AIP and then spent the next two years ironing out the details of the other 25 sections. R&I not done? That seems like a big one.

Ottolillienthal

That describes how hard and how long they are allowed to work you, how much they can work you to death, and it should have provisions for transport and burial of your remains after they work you to death.