APC225

12, ORD, 5 Aug.

CALFO

How is decertifying ALPA going to change NMB policy?

Wait until after this Wednesday, once the APA LBF vote is tallied. Whatever the details of our AIP, one thing is for certain, it's better than what the APA guys are being offered. I would not be surprised if the NMB is suppressing this info so as not the influence (or appear to) the APA vote.

dvhighdrive88

Agreed this is a big factor besides the whole NMB secrecy thing which is quite maddening. Wait and battle for a TA and it gets buried. Nice.

Hopefully the CAL guys can force it into the open soon?

reCALcitrant

I am a burn this mf down type of guy. I don't get a vote because I'm on mil leave. But, let's read it, THEN take action. Not ready, shoot, aim.

horrido27

Couple of points, CALFO-
De-certifying ALPA will/would not change NMB Policy. On the contrary, WE have a Resolution that states that any TA needs to go out to the CAL Pilots before the MEC votes on putting it out for a ratification vote. That is OUR Policy, and ALPA National has a duty to enforce that.

What would you say if the NMB came out and said-
"No membership vote, let the MEC/NC be the voting body"?

I do not see how the NMB can dictate how a pilot group acts, with regards to a Resolution. And it's the job of my Union to make the NMB understand what our policy is, and what we require.
The Continental Pilots have "required" a say in the TA Process from Day 1. This was a way to protect our group from the United Group.
(I say that because the UAL Pilot group out numbers us, and we wanted to have some sort of say in any TA before it went out to a membership vote.)

Mind you, this Resolution passed 9-0! The entire MEC supported it, as they knew that the entire Pilot Group was concerned~

As far as the APA Vote is concerned..
Nope, putting this TA out for view has NOTHING to do with their vote. The TA needs to be finalized BEFORE it can be put out. It is my understanding that, that will take a few weeks.
The APA Vote will be over by then.

On the contrary- I was under the impression that nothing about this AIP should be released. THAT would protect the NMB/APA Vote.
Instead, at least one pilot (by name) has stated that he has spoken to his (LAX) Rep and posted "facts" about the AIP. That is concerning- and APA Pilots should probably think about that with regards to their vote.

Motch

PS> Just because our AIP is "better than what the APA guys are being offered " means nothing to me.
Delta Scope is Concessionary to the CAL CBA/Pilot Group.
[Can not speak for the United Pilot Group]
Delta's PWA has B717's in there.. have not heard if we have something similar. Will wait and see.
Delta +$1 was unacceptable a few years back.. Delta -$1 is still. (Especially since/if their Scope makes it over here. That is a Concession)
$400 million (to be divided up by ALPA!) as a signing/Retro is also unacceptable

PPS> The above is EXACTLY why we have the Resolution in place. If the above "facts' turn out to be true.. it's a NO Vote. But more importantly, it's a NO Vote that needs to be sent back to the NC/NMB before Membership Ratification.
IF one of the above items were changed more towards the positive, maybe, just maybe; I could live with a Pilot Group that votes YES.

I'm just a single Vote, but have yet to speak to anyone who states they would vote Yes based on those three "facts".

horrido27

^ Mind you.. I am no longer on CAL Forums so I don't know what's going on there except for a few email-posts friends have sent me,
And I was banned from United Pilots Forum (for stating 'Fly The Contract') so again, don't know what's going on there except for a few email-posts friend have sent me.

I would imagine both Sites are pretty lively these days.. with their own "spin" as they are different Pilot Group sites~

horrido27

Totally agree.
That is why I expect to see any TA BEFORE my MEC/LEC Votes.

I'm just stating my plan IF the Union goes against the Resolution.

Motch

CALFO

Agreed, so stop saying that DAL -$1 is unacceptable, etc. Even if true, it's meaningless when taken out of context of the current contract. There are many more items that go into total compensation. I will happily take DAL -$1, if my B-funds is higher, my rigs are better, my per diem is much stronger, etc., etc.

The 717 comment regarding scope is ludicrous. Of course we aren't getting any 717's. Where would we get them from?

With regards to decertification, it will be interesting to see where ALPA national goes with this. I don't believe that UAL ALPA supports the CAL ALPA resolution. This will put ALPA national between a rock and a hard place. At the end of the day, I don't think that it will be an issue and I believe that we will get to review the entire TA before the MEC vote (just my opinion).

With regard to the LA rep violating the gag order. That is a problem.

47dog

"717s ludicrous "

It's not an aircraft specific comment he made. It's DAL is getting growth tied to the scope. We may be getting the same scope with no growth. Quarterly investor conference call just stated no fleet growth planned for the next five years.

CALFO

If DAL's small jet scope is tied completely to 717 acquisition (which it is), then how can someone accurately state that the UAL AIP scope is the "same" as DAL without the 717's? Makes absolutely no sense.

Until we see the entire section, this one statement is absolutely meaningless and completely out of context.

By the way, where did you read in DAL's contract that there would be growth on the mainline side? Yes, there will be 717 deliveries, but that doesn't mean overall growth.