Originally Posted by Shrek

Whatever you do....do not look at her picture........I verped

Originally Posted by wallyp34

This is more of the same nonsense. The usual anti union garbage with the same "don't think of going on strike talk." PLEASE! I am sick of reading this crap. Airline management always gets acess to the media to say the same things over and over to the general public. How we better take whatever they put in front of us or the end is near, blah, blah, blah. Why don't we start getting in front of the media folks and get the real story out there? It's a fight, make no mistake about it, and it helps to get the facts out to the flying pubic so they hear the real story vs how management is fighting the evil unions once again.

Originally Posted by 2wright

This is from 'Plane Business' a weekly blog about the airline industry:

So back to the United/Continental pilot negotiations.

No question I will be getting into the reasons why this latest intensive round of negotiations failed in more detail in the next few weeks, but here is my short and sweet take.

Regarding the deal that I understand was under consideration at the end of last week, I don't think the two sides are that far apart. From what I hear from both sides, there were hundreds of items taken care of over the last month, and as for the the few remaining items -- the sides are not that far apart.

But two things kept this deal from coming together. Union politics on the United Airlines side, and the timing of the news on the Delta Air Lines pilot union vote.

I think there was reluctance on the part of United to commit to some items, especially pay rates, when the outcome of the Delta contract was still up in the air.

Meanwhile, on the United union side, I think United ALPA MEC Chairman Jay Heppner is caught up in that "I need to look like I am holding strong in front of my members" mode.

Interestingly, for those of you who follow such things, you may remember that it was the Continental pilot group that a few years ago was stuck on the scope issue when company negotiators threw the then-Delta contract on the table and said they would best the pay rates by a dollar and match the rest of the contract line by line.

There was a good reason for that. The Delta contract, which was the one negotiated as part of the Delta/Northwest deal, gave the airline much more flexibility in terms of codesharing and scope.

From what I hear, the guys at Continental now appear to understand why the company needs more flexibility -- which is exactly what Delta got with its first merger contract. And which was just expanded upon with this latest contract.

Meanwhile, on the United side, it appears to be an internal political ****ing contest between the factions within the pilot union. Is it as bad as the situation at US Airways? Everyone I talk to says no, but I've always been leery of a similar situation breaking out with this group.

In addition, the more radical of the United group have apparently been mesmerized by some Washington lobbyists who appear to be telling them that it would be to their advantage to push the NMB to release them, and then push on to a potential strike. One union-related person told me last week, "We have assurances that a PEB would be set up quickly, and that a resulting deal would be to our advantage."

Yeah, right. And I have a lot in Timbuktu I'll sell you for $1000. Great deal.

Funny thing about Washington lobbyists. They will tell you exactly what you want to hear, introduce you to "stars" on the Hill, take a lot of your money, and then what?

Sorry guys, but with the election coming up, and with a required DOT analysis of the economic impact of a release, and with the inevitable conclusion that the combined airline is simply too big to allow a strike to take place, if you believe what these high-priced lobbyists are telling you, you need to have your head examined.

The best way for these negotiations to be settled is at the table, and I still am optimistic that this can happen. But somebody in the United MEC (and I'm not naming names) is going to have to stop playing political junkie and start doing what is best for the airline -- which will then be best for the membership. In other words, be a leader.

We saw this "big picture" understanding with the Delta contract. That's what we have to see with the United contract as well. The airline has to be allowed to be competitive on the international playing field.

Originally Posted by iahflyr

This is so important. The company can offer us all 500K a year, but it won't mean anything if we are not competitive as a company.

Learn from the mistakes of the past so you avoid making them again in the future!

Was C2000 really that long ago??

Originally Posted by pipe

I agree that Hegeman is full of nonsense. I disagree with the value of getting in front of the media. Jeffy doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks of him. He!!, you can run Bain Capital, LIQUIDATE businesses, and still be a presidential contender. Public opinion doesn't matter in this fight.

This fight WILL NOT BE WON OR LOST IN THE MEDIA!!!

It will be won or lost in the accounting office. If you make it hurt there, you'll win. If you don't, you'll lose. That's it.

PIPE

Originally Posted by pipe

Why would you write that?

You forced me to go look and I was deeply affected.

Dang it!!

PIPE

Originally Posted by jaykris

I want to see the f'n proposal! Let the membership decide.

Originally Posted by 2wright

The airline has to be allowed to be competitive on the international playing field.

Originally Posted by iahflyr

This is so important. The company can offer us all 500K a year, but it won't mean anything if we are not competitive as a company.

Originally Posted by krudawg

And not only that, you can be a community organizer, whatever that is, and become President of the United States.

Originally Posted by pipe

Why would you write that?

You forced me to go look and I was deeply affected.

Dang it!!

PIPE