SOTeric

I have no doubt they want the same thing. Question is, how do you go about it...on your feet or on your knees.

Sorry if I intimidated you.

Slammer

I think UA and CAL pilots have been on their knees for a while, but the question is HOW! It WILL require both groups working together and yes at times disagreeing, to move us from our knees to our feet....so on the backdrop of both unions requesting a release to turn up the pressure on managements obvious stall tactics, I think we are ALL moving to our feet...but we are not there. One group cant do it NOR does one group have ALL the answers. Not the time to kill the little unity we have at the MEC level and by default the pilot groups. Believe me, the company has already started that campaign and the LAST thing we need to do is help them.

SoCalGuy

WHAT "THEY" REALLY SAID: - Read 'between the line'.
5/13/12

To our fellow pilots:
To the 2% that still listen to us:

The company is continuing to work together with ALPA to reach a joint collective bargaining agreement. The mediation process has been working well, and has allowed us to make substantial progress on many sections. Sub-groups of negotiators are continuing to meet on the remaining sections, and we expect to make further progress in the weeks ahead. Both sides at the table recognize that we are getting closer to tackling the key remaining issues such as pay rates and scope. As always, our goal is to reach agreement on a competitive contract that is fair to you, and fair to the company. And we want to do that as soon as possible.
We still pretend to work with ALPA to reach a JCBA. WHY AREN’T YOU SATISFIED WITH THAT!!!??? Mediation has been working great for us for many years now, and has saved us a boatload of cash over the years. Our goal is a contract that leaves you far behind industry standard and allows us to pay Jeff and the rest of us the $MILLIONS that is fair to us, since we are always doing the “hard work” and you just sit there in the cockpit. To us, fairness means forgetting about all those pay cuts you took in bankruptcy, or that half your jobs were outsourced to UAEX & Star Alliance.


What is soon? Neither the company nor ALPA can predict or dictate a timeline for reaching a tentative agreement. That will be the result of a consensus being reached by both sides at the table.
What is soon? Contracts are very complicated with lots of words and stuff. So we’re thinking 2018 is soon. 2017 is sooner. 2016 is really soon. Consensus just can’t be rushed when you’re in our position...

We announced long ago that the mediator had scheduled negotiating dates through mid-June. However, recent ALPA communications have mischaracterized the mid-June time- frame as the “end” of negotiations -- by which time ALPA claims an agreement must be reached. This is simply false. There is no deadline relating to reaching a consensus on issues, and neither the company nor the NMB has agreed to any deadline. For ALPA to falsely claim the existence of a deadline without involvement or agreement from the NMB mediators or the company is not constructive, nor is it conducive to reaching a tentative agreement.
We announced long ago that the mediator had scheduled negotiating dates through mid-June. Now that you’ve convinced Pierce & Moak to go along with the request for NMB release, we now blame you for thinking we would actually negotiate ANYTHING by mid-June. How dare you try to hold us to what we say! We run negotiations like a creeping mechanical delay...just keep jerking everyone around as long as WE WANT...always 90 days away from a contract. Oops, I think we just proved ALPA’s point to NMB that we never really intended to negotiate in good faith...doesn’t anyone proof-read our letters before we publish them???

The company continues to negotiate constructively and in good faith to reach an agreement as soon as possible. We have the right people, with the right authority, at the table.
Better try to salvage this!!! Lets repeat the same tired lines that we’ve been putting out for years. We’ve got the right people at the table all right, haha! Did we mention the boatload of cash they’ve saved us?

On Friday, ALPA requested to be released from mediation. We view the request to be premature and counter-productive. This approach is consistent with failed past airline union negotiating strategies which generally only serve to delay making progress. Moreover, ALPA’s recent communications themselves noted that the parties have made “significant recent progress” and are “producing real results” in areas of the agreement, but that “many issues remain.” Accordingly, this is a time to increase focus on negotiating, rather than on what will prove to be ineffective efforts by ALPA to discontinue mediation.
We view the request to be released premature because we still have years of wordsmithing to do on the scheduling section! Plus its going to take more time to convince you that OUR definition of a fair contract is good for you. BTW why don’t you show up at Jeff’s CEO Exchanges anymore so he can educate you?? We are just so hurt, and bitter and can’t help whining. We don’t understand how you could actually want our negotiation theatre show to come to a close. You know if you talk about going on strike that will upset us, and make us write more letters like this instead of negotiating?
Since it might cut into our bonuses, we cannot admit that a release from negotiations would actually increase the chance of a joint collective bargaining agreement. HOW DARE YOU ASK FOR THIS? HOLY-CRAP! WE MIGHT HAVE TO GET SERIOUS!

Honest dialogue and hard work with the assistance of NMB mediation will allow us to reach our goal of a joint collective bargaining agreement for our pilot co-workers. We are sticking with our plan of carrying negotiations through to a successful conclusion.
"Honest"?!?!.....PLEASE!!!

We thank you for your professionalism and your strong efforts to keep the right focus on the flight deck.
We thank you for your FEDERAL COURT MANDATED professionalism and your strong self-preservation instinct that keeps you from crashing in spite of our willy-nilly changes and lack of training.

Sincerely, Fred Abbott and Howard Attarian
"Freddy & Howie"

cgull

Would 5, 7, 9 or 10 work?


ARTICLE VIII - HEARING AND APPEAL PROCEDURES
SECTION 1 - HEARING OF MEMBERSHIP CASES
A. Any member (including any Inactive member) may be disciplined, fined, or expelled for any of the following acts:
(1) Willful violation of this Constitution and By-Laws.
(2) Making a false statement or withholding material information when applying for membership.
(3) Disobeying or failing to comply with a decision of the Board of Directors, the Executive Board, the Executive Council, his Master Executive Council, or his Local Council.
(4) Misappropriating money or property of the Association.
(5) Performing work for or assisting an airline during a period when the members of this Association are on strike against such airline.
(6) Entering into an employment agreement, or any contract which might injure the Association.
(7) Improperly disclosing confidential matter of the Association.
(8) Refusing or willfully neglecting to pay dues, assessments, fines or financial obligations to the Association.
(9) Acting in any manner to circumvent, defeat or interfere with collective bargaining between the Association and an employer or with existing collective bargaining agreements.
(10) Doing any act contrary to the best interests of the Association or its members.

Pilotbiffster

So, accepting junior manning would be a violation of 9 and 10 at least. Just say no.