What say you EWR, CLE, LAX and GUAM?
05-10-2012, 08:53 PM
#11
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Then why did the "other" rep and the LAX reps sign JP's letter of nonviolence?
05-11-2012, 10:18 AM
#12
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I think the mid June deadline that JP wants everyone to genuflect in front of is going to be the line in the sand. IMHO if it fails again to produce a TA then reps will be tossed with EWR leading the pack. I plan on giving my reps an earful this week about the consequences of screwing up this deadline once again.
Therefore, what was done to protect the CAL Pilots from having a bad deal forced upon them by the UAL Pilots- will actually be the mechanism that the CAL Reps can also use if/when they don't agree to sending a TA out to a Vote~
How you gonna to .."giving my reps an earful this week about the consequences of screwing up this deadline once again." when all the company has to do now is to agree on whatever they think will pass a UAL Pilot groups requirement (since they are on a rush job), while "meeting the deadline"... and then watch the CAL Pilots get all huffy about a bad deal?!
Hell, alot of UAL Pilots on alot of Forums have stated that they will vote NO on any TA that has PayBanding (with regards to the 747).. you gonna blame a CAL Rep if the TA fails because of that?!
Funny how everyone on here has forgotten that the UAL MEC gave the company an Ultimatum.. and the Company did nothing.
Then they (UAL MEC) handed it to ALPA National.. and ALPA N did nothing.
I hope we see a TA by next month, but am just concerned that anything we see now will not be as good as it should/could have been had the UAL MEC not done a Unilateral move.
Time will tell.
Motch
PS> I have no issue with what the IAH FO Rep wrote. He represents that group. If they are good with what he put out... ok. That's how the system should work!
05-11-2012, 10:48 AM
#13
SLI best wishes!
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: B767 Capt
Posts: 399
The beauty of it is.. on the CAL ALPA Side, we have a resolution that states that ANY TA needs to been shown to the membership to comment on BEFORE the MEC vote on IF it should go out to the pilot group for a Vote!
Therefore, what was done to protect the CAL Pilots from having a bad deal forced upon them by the UAL Pilots- will actually be the mechanism that the CAL Reps can also use if/when they don't agree to sending a TA out to a Vote~
How you gonna to .."giving my reps an earful this week about the consequences of screwing up this deadline once again." when all the company has to do now is to agree on whatever they think will pass a UAL Pilot groups requirement (since they are on a rush job), while "meeting the deadline"... and then watch the CAL Pilots get all huffy about a bad deal?!
Hell, alot of UAL Pilots on alot of Forums have stated that they will vote NO on any TA that has PayBanding (with regards to the 747).. you gonna blame a CAL Rep if the TA fails because of that?!
Funny how everyone on here has forgotten that the UAL MEC gave the company an Ultimatum.. and the Company did nothing.
Then they (UAL MEC) handed it to ALPA National.. and ALPA N did nothing.
I hope we see a TA by next month, but am just concerned that anything we see now will not be as good as it should/could have been had the UAL MEC not done a Unilateral move.
Time will tell.
Motch
PS> I have no issue with what the IAH FO Rep wrote. He represents that group. If they are good with what he put out... ok. That's how the system should work!
Therefore, what was done to protect the CAL Pilots from having a bad deal forced upon them by the UAL Pilots- will actually be the mechanism that the CAL Reps can also use if/when they don't agree to sending a TA out to a Vote~
How you gonna to .."giving my reps an earful this week about the consequences of screwing up this deadline once again." when all the company has to do now is to agree on whatever they think will pass a UAL Pilot groups requirement (since they are on a rush job), while "meeting the deadline"... and then watch the CAL Pilots get all huffy about a bad deal?!
Hell, alot of UAL Pilots on alot of Forums have stated that they will vote NO on any TA that has PayBanding (with regards to the 747).. you gonna blame a CAL Rep if the TA fails because of that?!
Funny how everyone on here has forgotten that the UAL MEC gave the company an Ultimatum.. and the Company did nothing.
Then they (UAL MEC) handed it to ALPA National.. and ALPA N did nothing.
I hope we see a TA by next month, but am just concerned that anything we see now will not be as good as it should/could have been had the UAL MEC not done a Unilateral move.
Time will tell.
Motch
PS> I have no issue with what the IAH FO Rep wrote. He represents that group. If they are good with what he put out... ok. That's how the system should work!
I would not be to worry about united pilots bringing you a bad contract....
05-11-2012, 10:58 AM
#14
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05-11-2012, 03:24 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
The beauty of it is.. on the CAL ALPA Side, we have a resolution that states that ANY TA needs to been shown to the membership to comment on BEFORE the MEC vote on IF it should go out to the pilot group for a Vote!
Therefore, what was done to protect the CAL Pilots from having a bad deal forced upon them by the UAL Pilots- will actually be the mechanism that the CAL Reps can also use if/when they don't agree to sending a TA out to a Vote~
How you gonna to .."giving my reps an earful this week about the consequences of screwing up this deadline once again." when all the company has to do now is to agree on whatever they think will pass a UAL Pilot groups requirement (since they are on a rush job), while "meeting the deadline"... and then watch the CAL Pilots get all huffy about a bad deal?!
Hell, alot of UAL Pilots on alot of Forums have stated that they will vote NO on any TA that has PayBanding (with regards to the 747).. you gonna blame a CAL Rep if the TA fails because of that?!
Funny how everyone on here has forgotten that the UAL MEC gave the company an Ultimatum.. and the Company did nothing.
Then they (UAL MEC) handed it to ALPA National.. and ALPA N did nothing.
I hope we see a TA by next month, but am just concerned that anything we see now will not be as good as it should/could have been had the UAL MEC not done a Unilateral move.
Time will tell.
Motch
PS> I have no issue with what the IAH FO Rep wrote. He represents that group. If they are good with what he put out... ok. That's how the system should work!
Therefore, what was done to protect the CAL Pilots from having a bad deal forced upon them by the UAL Pilots- will actually be the mechanism that the CAL Reps can also use if/when they don't agree to sending a TA out to a Vote~
How you gonna to .."giving my reps an earful this week about the consequences of screwing up this deadline once again." when all the company has to do now is to agree on whatever they think will pass a UAL Pilot groups requirement (since they are on a rush job), while "meeting the deadline"... and then watch the CAL Pilots get all huffy about a bad deal?!
Hell, alot of UAL Pilots on alot of Forums have stated that they will vote NO on any TA that has PayBanding (with regards to the 747).. you gonna blame a CAL Rep if the TA fails because of that?!
Funny how everyone on here has forgotten that the UAL MEC gave the company an Ultimatum.. and the Company did nothing.
Then they (UAL MEC) handed it to ALPA National.. and ALPA N did nothing.
I hope we see a TA by next month, but am just concerned that anything we see now will not be as good as it should/could have been had the UAL MEC not done a Unilateral move.
Time will tell.
Motch
PS> I have no issue with what the IAH FO Rep wrote. He represents that group. If they are good with what he put out... ok. That's how the system should work!
05-11-2012, 05:45 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 215
The beauty of it is.. on the CAL ALPA Side, we have a resolution that states that ANY TA needs to been shown to the membership to comment on BEFORE the MEC vote on IF it should go out to the pilot group for a Vote!
Therefore, what was done to protect the CAL Pilots from having a bad deal forced upon them by the UAL Pilots- will actually be the mechanism that the CAL Reps can also use if/when they don't agree to sending a TA out to a Vote~
Therefore, what was done to protect the CAL Pilots from having a bad deal forced upon them by the UAL Pilots- will actually be the mechanism that the CAL Reps can also use if/when they don't agree to sending a TA out to a Vote~
How you gonna to .."giving my reps an earful this week about the consequences of screwing up this deadline once again." when all the company has to do now is to agree on whatever they think will pass a UAL Pilot groups requirement (since they are on a rush job), while "meeting the deadline"... and then watch the CAL Pilots get all huffy about a bad deal?!
Well Motch ... you and I had some areas we agreed upon and some we disagreed upon. At least we met here on the forum for a discussion. Question to you! Will the CAL-MEC agree to attend a joint meeting or will they back away again from a joint CAL-UAL MEC meeting ? Time will tell ... right?
05-11-2012, 07:52 PM
#17
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Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
BTW..
When I say "Bad deal" it's like comparing Apples to Oranges. There are some things that we allow that you don't (not going into the BF crew rest seat! LOL)
I know we allow guys to do red-eyes and turn around and do a night international flight. You guys don't allow that but our guys who commute like it.
Me, I avoid it but think it should be something allowed in the Contract IF the pilot waives it. But min 12 hours off in domicile is a must!
Just one example..
Anyway, the reality is.. when this merger came down, at our local council meetings there was a genuine fear that since your numbers outweighed our numbers.. we might not have an equal say in the matter of a JCBA. Our resolution (which passed) to allow membership viewing of any TA BEFORE it goes to an MEC Vote was (in my opinion) a good thing.
Keep in mind, when the Merger Date was announced, we at the CAL MEC had already gotten agreements in principal on a few of our sections in a new CBA, and we had also put out our C08 Proposal.. we were heading towards a CBA though many of us thought that we'd have to plan on going on Strike in 2011-12 timeframe. This merger changed all that.
As far as the "Joint MEC Meeting".. can't tell you a yes or no. I would Love to see that, and really don't know why we HAVEN'T been doing that every other month!
(Had I been Fuehrer.. I mean President- I would have done that!.. [Dr.StrangeLove reference~]
Again, it sucks that Fear, Power and Politics have played their hand in all of this since day 1. And I think both sides are equally to blame and both side probably have some fair concerns. What was lacking from the get go was real leadership at the top, to include ALPA National.
If/When Wendy-Jay or JayP-JayH couldn't see eye to eye, or come to an agreement which MAY have hampered the negotiations.. ALPA National should have stepped in.
I'm glad to see today's letter to LM from JayP. Still hope we will see something next month, though- my Strike Fund is ready (hope everyone's else is.. but just flew with an FO who told me he doesn't have one!).
Trying to stay optimistic while also prepared for the worse~
Motch
PS> Opinions are just like *******s and everybody's got one! These are just mine, and at the end of the day I feel that most of the UAL crowd isn't that much different than the CAL crowd. Probably, the biggest difference is that you guys have been beaten down more than us.. but we all want the came thing- an Industry Leading, Taking It Back Contract~
Just how we get there differs somewhat.
When I say "Bad deal" it's like comparing Apples to Oranges. There are some things that we allow that you don't (not going into the BF crew rest seat! LOL)
I know we allow guys to do red-eyes and turn around and do a night international flight. You guys don't allow that but our guys who commute like it.
Me, I avoid it but think it should be something allowed in the Contract IF the pilot waives it. But min 12 hours off in domicile is a must!
Just one example..
Anyway, the reality is.. when this merger came down, at our local council meetings there was a genuine fear that since your numbers outweighed our numbers.. we might not have an equal say in the matter of a JCBA. Our resolution (which passed) to allow membership viewing of any TA BEFORE it goes to an MEC Vote was (in my opinion) a good thing.
Keep in mind, when the Merger Date was announced, we at the CAL MEC had already gotten agreements in principal on a few of our sections in a new CBA, and we had also put out our C08 Proposal.. we were heading towards a CBA though many of us thought that we'd have to plan on going on Strike in 2011-12 timeframe. This merger changed all that.
As far as the "Joint MEC Meeting".. can't tell you a yes or no. I would Love to see that, and really don't know why we HAVEN'T been doing that every other month!
(Had I been Fuehrer.. I mean President- I would have done that!.. [Dr.StrangeLove reference~]
Again, it sucks that Fear, Power and Politics have played their hand in all of this since day 1. And I think both sides are equally to blame and both side probably have some fair concerns. What was lacking from the get go was real leadership at the top, to include ALPA National.
If/When Wendy-Jay or JayP-JayH couldn't see eye to eye, or come to an agreement which MAY have hampered the negotiations.. ALPA National should have stepped in.
I'm glad to see today's letter to LM from JayP. Still hope we will see something next month, though- my Strike Fund is ready (hope everyone's else is.. but just flew with an FO who told me he doesn't have one!).
Trying to stay optimistic while also prepared for the worse~
Motch
PS> Opinions are just like *******s and everybody's got one! These are just mine, and at the end of the day I feel that most of the UAL crowd isn't that much different than the CAL crowd. Probably, the biggest difference is that you guys have been beaten down more than us.. but we all want the came thing- an Industry Leading, Taking It Back Contract~
Just how we get there differs somewhat.
05-12-2012, 07:51 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
Please tell us the aspects of a bad deal you think the UAL pilots will cram down your throat?
05-12-2012, 08:25 AM
#19
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05-12-2012, 08:29 AM
#20
SLI best wishes!
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: B767 Capt
Posts: 399
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