Just when you thought you have seen enough!
05-09-2012, 06:39 PM
#1
SLI best wishes!
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: B767 Capt
Posts: 399
Just when you thought you have seen enough!
Found this on another forum:
Spoke to CDG Crew: Pierce Undermines Safety & Contract
Wed May 09, 2012 7:49 pm
REF CAL MEC CHAIRMAN DISPLACING CREW OUT OF BUSINESS FIRST CREW REST SEAT
POSTED BY REQUEST
I spoke with a crew member from the flight from Paris that Jay Pierce was on. These are my notes as I scribbled on an envelope.
Agents told captain they had assigned first class seat to them and pierce "claimed" it as a PS0
Captain called pierce to flight deck to question him
Captain asked pierce to sit in coach and he refused
Pierce argued he should have the seat as it was a privilege granted by flight operations (by virtue of PS0 )and then expanded on why he should be sitting in that seat seat instead of the crew. He argued that his wife was with him and they wanted to sit together. As it happens, that would have taken the cooperation of an air marshall who was sitting next to pierce and so it turns out, they (pierce and wife) didn't sit together anyway. The captain gave pierce the opportunity to step up to the plate and jay kept his seat in first anyway.
I have an e-mail into JP also.
Wed May 09, 2012 7:49 pm
REF CAL MEC CHAIRMAN DISPLACING CREW OUT OF BUSINESS FIRST CREW REST SEAT
POSTED BY REQUEST
I spoke with a crew member from the flight from Paris that Jay Pierce was on. These are my notes as I scribbled on an envelope.
Agents told captain they had assigned first class seat to them and pierce "claimed" it as a PS0
Captain called pierce to flight deck to question him
Captain asked pierce to sit in coach and he refused
Pierce argued he should have the seat as it was a privilege granted by flight operations (by virtue of PS0 )and then expanded on why he should be sitting in that seat seat instead of the crew. He argued that his wife was with him and they wanted to sit together. As it happens, that would have taken the cooperation of an air marshall who was sitting next to pierce and so it turns out, they (pierce and wife) didn't sit together anyway. The captain gave pierce the opportunity to step up to the plate and jay kept his seat in first anyway.
I have an e-mail into JP also.
05-10-2012, 05:48 AM
#5
SLI best wishes!
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: B767 Capt
Posts: 399
Are you a CAL pilot? Probably not if this has to be explained to you....if you are then then I stand by the the header on this thread.
Here is my take on this....We have the head of CAL ALPA sending a message during contract negotiations that crew rest in coach is ok.....
Maybe someone else can explain the crew rest provisions of your contract But IF a First Class seat is available, do the non revenue passenger get it before a working crew for international rest( SAFETY of Flight). Remember that the FAA new FTDT rules that will take effect at the end of 2013 will now prohibits resting in coach.
Here is my take on this....We have the head of CAL ALPA sending a message during contract negotiations that crew rest in coach is ok.....
Maybe someone else can explain the crew rest provisions of your contract But IF a First Class seat is available, do the non revenue passenger get it before a working crew for international rest( SAFETY of Flight). Remember that the FAA new FTDT rules that will take effect at the end of 2013 will now prohibits resting in coach.
05-10-2012, 06:39 AM
#6
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
The Captain of that flight needs to write an email to explain what happened. Only his words, or those of the FO/IRO will hold water here.
If it is true that the MEC Chair refused the request of the cockpit crew.. that is disturbing.
Motch
If it is true that the MEC Chair refused the request of the cockpit crew.. that is disturbing.
Motch
05-10-2012, 06:45 AM
#7
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
Maybe someone else can explain the crew rest provisions of your contract But IF a First Class seat is available, do the non revenue passenger get it before a working crew for international rest( SAFETY of Flight). Remember that the FAA new FTDT rules that will take effect at the end of 2013 will now prohibits resting in coach.
A BF crew rest seat will not be given to a non rev or passenger upgrade (inside of 24hrs {a change due to UAL Upgrading everyone!} for the upgrade) thereby displacing the crew member into coach.
If there are two BF seats avail, one will be given to whoever is first on the upgrade list.. be it a non-rev or passenger upgrade. The other goes to the crew.
Now with a PS0.. not sure how that works, would need to do some research. Maybe someone else can chime in on that status.
Motch
05-10-2012, 07:25 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 225
No UAL pilot would give up his assigned crew-rest First Class seat and there is no provision in our contract that allows this. The Flight Crew would all walk off the airplane if the company tried.
When a UAL crewmember is flying in the back on company business, he is just like the IBM exec that had his ticket bought by his company. He should not feel obligated to give up that FC(BFC) for any reason. Why you guys allowed deadheading on company business in coach, especially while working a trip, is amazing. This is the cost of doing business.
Last edited by Once United; 05-10-2012 at 07:35 AM.
05-10-2012, 07:34 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 225
Per the FOM and the memo I have-
A BF crew rest seat will not be given to a non rev or passenger upgrade (inside of 24hrs {a change due to UAL Upgrading everyone!} for the upgrade) thereby displacing the crew member into coach.
If there are two BF seats avail, one will be given to whoever is first on the upgrade list.. be it a non-rev or passenger upgrade. The other goes to the crew.
Now with a PS0.. not sure how that works, would need to do some research. Maybe someone else can chime in on that status.
Motch
A BF crew rest seat will not be given to a non rev or passenger upgrade (inside of 24hrs {a change due to UAL Upgrading everyone!} for the upgrade) thereby displacing the crew member into coach.
If there are two BF seats avail, one will be given to whoever is first on the upgrade list.. be it a non-rev or passenger upgrade. The other goes to the crew.
Now with a PS0.. not sure how that works, would need to do some research. Maybe someone else can chime in on that status.
Motch
05-10-2012, 07:49 AM
#10
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
OU..
think you missed my point.
At the (old) CAL, we did not upgrade anyone into BF on International flights. So, if 4 seats were available, maybe 3 non-revs would get moved up and the IRO would get a seat.
Now, under the (new) UAL, we upgrade everyone into BF and the chances of a non-rev getting up front are tougher.
BUT-
We (CAL Side) should never lose out BF crew rest seat due to an Upgrade, once within 24hrs of departure.
Yes, it sucks that the CAL Pilots voted to allow the crew rest seat on the 756 to be moved to couch. I wasn't here (neither were over 1900 pilots) when it was voted on. And Yes, it should have been fixed a long time ago.
But-
There are a few good things about our CBA and probably the best was (is) SCOPE.
Again, not making excuses.. just trying to clarify.
Until we hear something from the crew involved, this is another hearsay story. IE, throw some mud up on the wall (message board) and see if it sticks.
Motch
PS> Noticed the story AND the thread about deleting the story- concerning the missing Medical(!) has been deleted?... hmmmm
think you missed my point.
At the (old) CAL, we did not upgrade anyone into BF on International flights. So, if 4 seats were available, maybe 3 non-revs would get moved up and the IRO would get a seat.
Now, under the (new) UAL, we upgrade everyone into BF and the chances of a non-rev getting up front are tougher.
BUT-
We (CAL Side) should never lose out BF crew rest seat due to an Upgrade, once within 24hrs of departure.
Yes, it sucks that the CAL Pilots voted to allow the crew rest seat on the 756 to be moved to couch. I wasn't here (neither were over 1900 pilots) when it was voted on. And Yes, it should have been fixed a long time ago.
But-
There are a few good things about our CBA and probably the best was (is) SCOPE.
Again, not making excuses.. just trying to clarify.
Until we hear something from the crew involved, this is another hearsay story. IE, throw some mud up on the wall (message board) and see if it sticks.
Motch
PS> Noticed the story AND the thread about deleting the story- concerning the missing Medical(!) has been deleted?... hmmmm
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