Point99orbetter

Farmer,
Looks like you pulled out the cattle prod pretty quick on Otto - he's just telling the truth - how on earth does that move him towards mangmt's side?
I think the Fred Flintstone analogy accurately represents the lack of power ALPA has - they can scream and cry and stomp their feet all day and where does that get us?
It's kind of like in the movie A Few Good Men where:
the lawyer (or ALPA) says "I object"
judge - "denied"
lawyer - "I strenuously object"
judge (with a snicker and a smirk)- "still denied"

flyingfarmer

Ok, I give, I was a little over the top with the Management comment... I am sorry. However,it is easy to get frustrated with the process when you are under a 100% paycut for going on 4 years. (sept. 08 UAL) I only hope furloughees are given SOME longevity... This would go a long way in soothing the hard feelings for being off so long. Not to mention good scope, etc.

IrishNJ

One question (and it's just a question so don't bite my head off): the two furloughees i know are a couple of years into careers at other carriers by now (jetblue etc.) and actually making more than they would be if they were at the bottom at UAL and are 99% sure they won't go back, why are you going back? (and I guess I'm assuming you're working somewhere and therefore not really on a 100% paycut)

Groundhog

This doesn't necessarily answer your question, but it is something to consider.
Although their current position is at 99% sure that they will not be coming back, the folks who are at JB and other carriers post-furlough may seriously reconsider after the contract is signed. My expectation is that furloughees will get full longevity credit. In other words, a 2008 furloughee could come back at the 5 year pay mark at the new pay rates if we get a contract in the next several months. Add to that, the furloughees have a 10 year decision time-frame. Some might not have to make the final decision to come back until 2018 or 2019. By that time they should see themselves well into the meat of the seniority list and we should be in our second post-merger contract. (Or getting ready to strike.)
Being furloughed sucks. I can empathize with their situation. I do not make light of the obstacles that many furloughees faced being cut loose at the beginning of one of the worst economic meltdowns in history. Having said that, those furloughees that found good flying jobs could be sitting in an enviable position.

(If the retirement age goes up to 70 in the next couple of years, all bets are off.)

FWIW

Hog

Once United

It's their option. They have recall right and protections that give them rights well beyond this CAL recall thing. They've earned it/paid for it and as long as they have those options they should make the best of it.

Good Luck!

Richiscool

Here is my thing, I am at the bottom of the furlough list, currently not flying (was going to do J4J, but a series family emergency arose at that time) and have been eagerly awaiting my time to come on the CAL side, which would be in the fall hiring at CAL. Now it is my understanding that when the JCBA is reached, and the companies become "one" All bets are off with regards to CAL hiring, and it becomes a recall, starting over from the top. Which may take another year or two to reach the bottom of the list. I think it would be great to get longevity pay, but to wait another two years or so would really suck.

I am one of those unfortunate saps that really like to fly, and put up with all the BS so I can. i know a lot of you have it a lot worse, and have been playing this game a lot longer, but, I just thought I'd speak my mind.

Ottolillienthal

If that happens ALPA is done for SURE!

Even the regional guys who currently get the lions share of the ALPA tool box would revolt on that one.

BTW, the next step for all US Airline Managements is to fight the ATP requirement for FO's by pushing for a watered down ATP. If they fail, their next move is age 65 relief due to "impending staffing shortages on the horizon."

Ottolillienthal

It's high time people shoot straight.

The sarcasm got your attention and now you actually tasted, ate, and digested the truth sandwich.

you're welcome.

*When's the last time ALPA or the company shot straight with you?

The CAL MEC reps (except EWR) won't shoot this straight. The IAH reps are essentially silent. Don't know much about UAL reps, but so far they seem to be shooting first and aiming second, while the UAL MC lobs grenades indiscrimately. All this while the CAL MEC MC shields himself from the grenades, and sticks his finger up in the air to see what direction the wind is blowing.

**The ground hog has indeed seen his shadow.

***Let the beatings continue until morale improves.

I favor a unified joint MEC and a unified set of Master Chairman, leading a unified Joint NC. That will work, and that is the only thing that will work. Combine that with timing, opportunity, and a gritty joint SPSC effort and I think we would be on the right track.

Regularguy

Otto...

You are an interesting piece of work. You always have a reason why things might not be as they are. You question everything and misdirect quickly.

The release has been requested it is in the hands of the ALPA Nat. Moak. The next step is passing the release to the NMB. What's Moak doing? Last I heard he is in France with JH and JP.

Let's keep this simple and stop trying to control what you can't. Then simpleest thing to do right now is prep your life for a possible work stoppage when the UCH Management fails to negotiate and your leaders lead self help.

Once United

Call it what you want, but the UAL Chairman and all UAL MEC members are in lock step. I would venture to guess all UAL pilots are on-board as well. It would be a good time for all CAL people to get on-board. Do what you know is best for the CAL pilots and not the CAL MEC Chairman.

Unity Works!