Release formally requested
05-01-2012, 07:39 PM
#61
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My sources tell me that ALPA National has put the UAL MEC on "ice."
Further, UCH management is pretending like UAL MEC didn't request anything. It's like a "do-over" it never happened. They are just pressing on doing what they do. Just a minor speed bump for both UCH Management, and ALPA National. CAL MEC just sort of hung out to dry.
To make matters worse, the members of the UAL JNC never even knew about the request from the UAL MEC MC to be released. They had to read about it same as the CAL MEC and everyone else. That's a pretty big "blind side."
Further, UCH management is pretending like UAL MEC didn't request anything. It's like a "do-over" it never happened. They are just pressing on doing what they do. Just a minor speed bump for both UCH Management, and ALPA National. CAL MEC just sort of hung out to dry.
To make matters worse, the members of the UAL JNC never even knew about the request from the UAL MEC MC to be released. They had to read about it same as the CAL MEC and everyone else. That's a pretty big "blind side."
05-01-2012, 07:42 PM
#62
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Where's the statement from Jay Pierce? This is like 9-11 when Bush ran around hiding until Dick told him it was okay to come home. We need to hear from our leader and get prepared to be released as one 10,000 strong pilot group.
Classic Movie Line #51 - YouTube
Classic Movie Line #51 - YouTube
Just a weird thought here....but here goes..........
We work for the largest airline in the world. It has been deemed "too big to fail." I don't think Obama will let you get released. No way can he afford to see 10,000 plus rise in unemployment figures in an election year.
We may be "too big to get released" unfortunately.
05-01-2012, 08:08 PM
#63
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Just a weird thought here....but here goes..........
We work for the largest airline in the world. It has been deemed "too big to fail." I don't think Obama will let you get released. No way can he afford to see 10,000 plus rise in unemployment figures in an election year.
We may be "too big to get released" unfortunately.
We work for the largest airline in the world. It has been deemed "too big to fail." I don't think Obama will let you get released. No way can he afford to see 10,000 plus rise in unemployment figures in an election year.
We may be "too big to get released" unfortunately.
05-01-2012, 08:14 PM
#64
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Obama will not get reelected without the support of unions, if he prevents one from exercising their lawful right to self help, he doesn't have a prayer in November. The majority of union members in the united states have no idea what hoops airline employees have to go thru before being able to strike.
05-01-2012, 08:51 PM
#65
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No, I don't think so either. It would be, IMHO, the worst of all possible outcomes for all parties, and somebody would probably cut a deal before that happens.
Lee,
Thanks for the historical note. I thought it was clear and informative.
05-02-2012, 12:17 AM
#66
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Tom,
Therein lies the potential "rub" in such a circumstance.
Without getting too deep into either of the Acts, there is nothing in the RLA or Norris-LaGuardia Act that prohibits "honoring" a picket line. So, while this is all currently a hypothetical scenario, yes, CAL pilots could go on a "sympathy" strike and honor the UAL pilot's picket line legally.
Such sympathy strikes are not forbidden in anyway; however, that does not mean that the company would not file to enjoin the CAL pilots if they elected to do so.
The precedent is there (Eastern vs ALPA) from when the pilots elected to honor the IAM picket lines in early 1989. Unfortunately, even though the case went to appeal to get the ruling, Eastern prevailed because they were able to prove ALPA's pretext through its formal statements made to the membership. In other words, able to get the court to consider ALPA's sympathy strike (legal) as merely a pretext for its own agenda (getting released) and using the opportunity to engage in self help before all provisions of the RLA had been exhausted with regards to ALPA.
Clear as mud?
Frats,
Lee
Therein lies the potential "rub" in such a circumstance.
Without getting too deep into either of the Acts, there is nothing in the RLA or Norris-LaGuardia Act that prohibits "honoring" a picket line. So, while this is all currently a hypothetical scenario, yes, CAL pilots could go on a "sympathy" strike and honor the UAL pilot's picket line legally.
Such sympathy strikes are not forbidden in anyway; however, that does not mean that the company would not file to enjoin the CAL pilots if they elected to do so.
The precedent is there (Eastern vs ALPA) from when the pilots elected to honor the IAM picket lines in early 1989. Unfortunately, even though the case went to appeal to get the ruling, Eastern prevailed because they were able to prove ALPA's pretext through its formal statements made to the membership. In other words, able to get the court to consider ALPA's sympathy strike (legal) as merely a pretext for its own agenda (getting released) and using the opportunity to engage in self help before all provisions of the RLA had been exhausted with regards to ALPA.
Clear as mud?
Frats,
Lee
05-02-2012, 04:40 AM
#67
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05-02-2012, 04:44 AM
#68
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Obama will not get reelected without the support of unions, if he prevents one from exercising their lawful right to self help, he doesn't have a prayer in November. The majority of union members in the united states have no idea what hoops airline employees have to go thru before being able to strike.
Note that ALPA National has not informed the NMB...........
So, essentially the UAL press release never happened. It looks like National ALPA doesn't want to go forward with this plan of action.
Any reasons why or why not?
What is Moak and the Executive Council thinking?
05-02-2012, 05:08 AM
#69
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Keep your eye on "company man" Dave Zullo
He was the guy that went on on his own and single handedly negotiated the two POS side letters that would have given away scope to management at CAL.
He did this with no direction or supervision from the CAL MEC.
He anonymously joined the CAL MEC Negotiating Committee, which was somehow approved by Pierce, and never informed the CAL MEC that he was working on a so called "furlough mitigation LOA" (yes another one). Then he brings this document to the MEC and wants the MEC to approve it in about 10 minutes after reading it.
No questions, no legal review, just sign it.
No one signed it..........
Then, he goes out for round 2, all the while as serving as the scheduling chairman and negotiates another one. Who approved him to do this?
Anyway, that LOA gets shot down too. Thankfully CA. Brandano was on the MEC from Newark and shined the light on this little scum bag. After his secret LOA was shot down he and his "buddy" stormed out of the MEC. Zullo resigned from the NC (a position in which he never had in the first place). The MEC would never put him on the NC because they smelled a rat.
Zullo's got the data......You better believe he took it all with him. As far as I am concerned Zullo's a scab. He crossed over to the other side during negotiations and I think he is a double scab.
Now, what about his little buddy that stormed out with him. Well, he was on the NC, and thankfully Farrow quit too after he was "outed."
He was the guy that went on on his own and single handedly negotiated the two POS side letters that would have given away scope to management at CAL.
He did this with no direction or supervision from the CAL MEC.
He anonymously joined the CAL MEC Negotiating Committee, which was somehow approved by Pierce, and never informed the CAL MEC that he was working on a so called "furlough mitigation LOA" (yes another one). Then he brings this document to the MEC and wants the MEC to approve it in about 10 minutes after reading it.
No questions, no legal review, just sign it.
No one signed it..........
Then, he goes out for round 2, all the while as serving as the scheduling chairman and negotiates another one. Who approved him to do this?
Anyway, that LOA gets shot down too. Thankfully CA. Brandano was on the MEC from Newark and shined the light on this little scum bag. After his secret LOA was shot down he and his "buddy" stormed out of the MEC. Zullo resigned from the NC (a position in which he never had in the first place). The MEC would never put him on the NC because they smelled a rat.
Zullo's got the data......You better believe he took it all with him. As far as I am concerned Zullo's a scab. He crossed over to the other side during negotiations and I think he is a double scab.
Now, what about his little buddy that stormed out with him. Well, he was on the NC, and thankfully Farrow quit too after he was "outed."
05-02-2012, 05:38 AM
#70
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There won't be a release for a host of reasons, the least of which being the UAL MEC has royally ***ed off the NMB. That's the gateway to a release and given that there was some sort of agreement and then the MEC dropped the "PR firm" issue publicly last week...they're toast with NMB and the WH. Everyone on Capitol Hill is ticked off on one hand and laughing hysterically as well.
Moak is as clueless as he is over a barrel. If he didn't sign off on paying for the "PR" firm...he got threatened with an immediate decert. He knows it's gonna happen anyway. And in the meantime, four offices at Mass Avenue have been given to the "big guys" to use, and FPL approved, so they can lobby Congress for whatever they feel like to placate them.
Moak also has a bigger problem. The person assigned to try and negotiate a steelement with the TWA pilots has screwed it up worse than Hogan's goat. Expect it to go to a jury award instead. For a LOT more than 1.3 billion. The same guy who tried to be "kingmaker" to everyone before the last BOD, thinking it would make him the indespensable lawyer. Sad thing is that he's a pilot union lawyer who really doesn't like pilots.
Union support? AFL is pretty disjointed right now and ALPA isn't seen in the greatest light after Prater and now Moak. It's going to be pretty tough selling a pilot strike to a construction worker who hasn't seen a paycheck in months. Truth is, it's always been tough to sell a pilot strike to AFL members. And given the current politics, whether you personally like the current POTUS or not, labor is going to think long and hard about being a part of anything that gives control of things to Boehner/Cantor/McConnell and the gang.
CAL? Could possibly go in sympathy, but if they're under a seperate CBA and not knowing their "no strike" language, they could be compelled to fly their own equipment on their own routes.
Sadly this whole thing looks like it was not thought through very well. Plan "A" may be a good idea, but you better have a "B" "C" and "D" backup.
Moak is as clueless as he is over a barrel. If he didn't sign off on paying for the "PR" firm...he got threatened with an immediate decert. He knows it's gonna happen anyway. And in the meantime, four offices at Mass Avenue have been given to the "big guys" to use, and FPL approved, so they can lobby Congress for whatever they feel like to placate them.
Moak also has a bigger problem. The person assigned to try and negotiate a steelement with the TWA pilots has screwed it up worse than Hogan's goat. Expect it to go to a jury award instead. For a LOT more than 1.3 billion. The same guy who tried to be "kingmaker" to everyone before the last BOD, thinking it would make him the indespensable lawyer. Sad thing is that he's a pilot union lawyer who really doesn't like pilots.
Union support? AFL is pretty disjointed right now and ALPA isn't seen in the greatest light after Prater and now Moak. It's going to be pretty tough selling a pilot strike to a construction worker who hasn't seen a paycheck in months. Truth is, it's always been tough to sell a pilot strike to AFL members. And given the current politics, whether you personally like the current POTUS or not, labor is going to think long and hard about being a part of anything that gives control of things to Boehner/Cantor/McConnell and the gang.
CAL? Could possibly go in sympathy, but if they're under a seperate CBA and not knowing their "no strike" language, they could be compelled to fly their own equipment on their own routes.
Sadly this whole thing looks like it was not thought through very well. Plan "A" may be a good idea, but you better have a "B" "C" and "D" backup.
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