Release formally requested
04-30-2012, 06:59 PM
#41
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Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
So JP and JH met? That's what the WSJ is saying Pierce stated.?
And why the change of mind from some people here? When JP asked for the Profit Sharing, he was doing the right thing for the CAL pilots. But now when JH does something for the UAL pilots, he's wrong?
And why the change of mind from some people here? When JP asked for the Profit Sharing, he was doing the right thing for the CAL pilots. But now when JH does something for the UAL pilots, he's wrong?
My source says next meeting is under the radar at the IFALPA conference.
04-30-2012, 07:15 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
Oh really...you obviously don't understand the history between the two groups. Of course, its not every pilot at UA...but Ask any pilot at CAL with sometime on the line and they will tell you, that has historically been the case....birth from 83 and 85 and continues today. Im being honest about the realities of bringing these two culturally different pilot group together. It started well before this merger and not going away because we are tired of hearing it...
I am tired of hearing anything that prevents us from achieving a jcba. I will most definitely be tired of hearing it in the cockpit since it will only serve as a buzkill for my impending layover.
Some need to realize who the real enemy is.
04-30-2012, 11:09 PM
#45
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Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 767 F/O
Posts: 303
OK.
I am really confused now.
1. Is Jay Happner asking for relase on behalf of the UAL pilots, or the CAL pilots, and/or both groups?
2. If he is asking for release of both groups of pilots, under what authority does he act?
3. Under the ALPA CBA, does another MEC MC have the authority to ask for such, and procedurally, how could the ALPA President honor such a request if the requester doesn't have legal authority to ask for it?
4. Did the CAL MEC vote on this as well?
5. Did the UAL MEC direct JH to do this, even though the CAL MEC may not have voted on it?
6. Have both MEC's voted to request that CA. Happner serve as the "joint spokesperson" on behalf of joint negotiations?
7. IF the ALPA President submits a request for relase of just the UAL pilots, where does that leave joint negotiations?
I am really confused now.
1. Is Jay Happner asking for relase on behalf of the UAL pilots, or the CAL pilots, and/or both groups?
2. If he is asking for release of both groups of pilots, under what authority does he act?
3. Under the ALPA CBA, does another MEC MC have the authority to ask for such, and procedurally, how could the ALPA President honor such a request if the requester doesn't have legal authority to ask for it?
4. Did the CAL MEC vote on this as well?
5. Did the UAL MEC direct JH to do this, even though the CAL MEC may not have voted on it?
6. Have both MEC's voted to request that CA. Happner serve as the "joint spokesperson" on behalf of joint negotiations?
7. IF the ALPA President submits a request for relase of just the UAL pilots, where does that leave joint negotiations?
05-01-2012, 12:37 AM
#46
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,033
Have you ever met her?
She's long been one of the best in the business.
05-01-2012, 04:20 AM
#47
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Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
In the past ALPA has done some good things and some pretty dumb things. The TWA DFR comes to mind. That might bankrupt ALPA.
The way the strike vote was handled at CAL in '83 was also procedurally flawed. While they were dealing with "co-worker Lorenzo" back then, not much has changed. No one likes the way the strike vote came down. While it was a job action and all that goes with it, it was ill-timed, and poorly planned.
I don't see Lee Moak, a very conservative, and non-confrontational ALPA President violating CBL just so we can "live with it." This would be the end of ALPA if he screws it up, and while TWA may bankrupt ALPA, a goof up here would drive it into the ground in less than 90 days.
Let's be careful what we "live with."
I am all for a release and the requisite job action, but that can only legally go one of three ways:
1. UAL gets released
2. CAL gets released
3. CAL/UAL both get released
Right now, Happner is only asking for HIS UAL pilots. If the UAL has a seperate section 6 process that was formally opened, then that is fine.
BTW, CAL MEC currently does have a seperate and legally binding section 6 position with the NMB and has since 2008. Not sure if UAL does.
We can do it jointly or alone, but it would be better if both MEC's get on the same page and pretty quick.
05-01-2012, 05:01 AM
#48
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Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 374
Let's do this UCAL pilots!!! OUR profession has been dragged through the mud for way too long. Now is OUR chance to improve the lives of ALL UAL/CAL pilots and their families and make our profession one we are proud of once again. UCH is the largest airline in the world. Your CEO is compensated as such. NOW it's YOUR turn!
Last edited by uaav8r; 05-01-2012 at 05:46 AM.
05-01-2012, 06:07 AM
#49
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Joined APC: May 2008
Position: 756 FO
Posts: 319
I think it is a great move by the UAL MEC. Each pilot group has to take the information they have in-front of them and make decisions that will set a course for success. In this case United management continues to take advantage of a concessionary contract. The UAL pilots have had enough... How much longer should they have to wait it has been 10 yrs!
If the UAL ALPA pilots are successful this will set a mark in the industry that shopping for profits from pilots W2 is not acceptable. The message will be sent industry wide that the concessions are old news and we aren't going to take it.
I will gladly join the UAL pilots at my nearby airport and walk the line.
If the UAL ALPA pilots are successful this will set a mark in the industry that shopping for profits from pilots W2 is not acceptable. The message will be sent industry wide that the concessions are old news and we aren't going to take it.
I will gladly join the UAL pilots at my nearby airport and walk the line.
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