Release formally requested
04-30-2012, 04:01 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: EWR B737FO
Posts: 225
Were you here in 83 or 85? Have you directly experienced any disdain from UAL pilots?
If you are indeed a 737 FO I suspect that you are repeating 2nd or 3rd hand info from family members or coworkers (I feel dirty typing that). I've been at UAL for 15 years and the ONLY negative thing I've heard about CAL pilots relates to the scabs. If anything, the UAL pilot group has been apathetic about CAL. There is absolutely NOTHING inherent in our two groups that should prevent unity. Your scabs can hang with our scabs the rest of us can drink beer and talk sh!t.
If you are indeed a 737 FO I suspect that you are repeating 2nd or 3rd hand info from family members or coworkers (I feel dirty typing that). I've been at UAL for 15 years and the ONLY negative thing I've heard about CAL pilots relates to the scabs. If anything, the UAL pilot group has been apathetic about CAL. There is absolutely NOTHING inherent in our two groups that should prevent unity. Your scabs can hang with our scabs the rest of us can drink beer and talk sh!t.
04-30-2012, 04:09 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Le Bus
Posts: 382
Oh really...you obviously don't understand the history between the two groups. Of course, its not every pilot at UA...but Ask any pilot at CAL with sometime on the line and they will tell you, that has historically been the case....birth from 83 and 85 and continues today. Im being honest about the realities of bringing these two culturally different pilot group together. It started well before this merger and not going away because we are tired of hearing it...
04-30-2012, 04:21 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
OK Here We GO!
Slammer and all the others who keep asking questions and what ifs, well the time is up. You have to all stop the whining and make a decision, will you support the possibility of a job action or not?
Things are very simple now so start planning for a loss of pay and a battle. Fly your contract, stop slamming your fellow pilots and basically the time for talk is over.
I trust the direction JH and the UAL MEC are going and see no other way to get this contract done. So relax, batten down your hatches and enjoy the next couple of months. You are making the right kind of history now!
Oh and guess what life isn't about to end.
Slammer and all the others who keep asking questions and what ifs, well the time is up. You have to all stop the whining and make a decision, will you support the possibility of a job action or not?
Things are very simple now so start planning for a loss of pay and a battle. Fly your contract, stop slamming your fellow pilots and basically the time for talk is over.
I trust the direction JH and the UAL MEC are going and see no other way to get this contract done. So relax, batten down your hatches and enjoy the next couple of months. You are making the right kind of history now!
Oh and guess what life isn't about to end.
04-30-2012, 05:33 PM
#34
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/Deskto...cumentID=48628
Here we go..........
NMB what say you? ---- Even if you say not a chance - the press ITSELF will pressure the BOD to chomp at Smisek's tail to get things going again at the negotiations.
Here we go..........
NMB what say you? ---- Even if you say not a chance - the press ITSELF will pressure the BOD to chomp at Smisek's tail to get things going again at the negotiations.
United Pilots Want Talks Declared at Impasse
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...857367814.html
By SUSAN CAREY
Unionized pilots at United Continental Holdings Inc.'s UAL -1.13% United Airline subsidiary, impatient over the slow pace of contract negotiations aimed at reaching a new joint labor accord covering them and their counterparts at the Continental Airlines union, asked the Air Line Pilots Association to submit a request that United pilots be released from mediated contract negotiations.
If the National Mediation Board, the federal agency that oversees labor relations in the airline industry and is currently mediating the bargaining, decided the talks weren't fruitful, it could release the pilots into a so-called 30-day "cooling off" period, after which the pilots could strike. The NMB routinely receives such requests but doesn't honor them when talks seem to be making progress. The NMB didn't return a phone call on Monday. United, in a statement, said it is "committed to reaching agreements quickly, but those agreements must be fair to the company and fair to employees."
Capt. Jay Heppner, chairman of the ALPA leadership council representing the 6,500 United aviators, said his members "have been driven by an intransigent, out-of-touch management team that refuses to do its part in negotiating a collective bargaining agreement" that recognizes the sacrifices the pilots have made to United since its bankruptcy filing a decade ago.
Capt. Heppner, a 27-year United veteran who flies a Boeing 777, was elected last year to a two-year term as chief of the ALPA branch at United, and took office in January. In the middle of April, he warned his pilots that if United management didn't agree to complete the contract talks by June 1, he would seek an NMB release from the talks as a prelude to a possible word stoppage. The pilots and company have been in negotiations for nearly two years, with the task made more complex by the addition of the 4,500 Continental pilots as a result of the 2010 merger of the two carriers.
Capt. Heppner, who has directed the creation of a website called www.the unfriendlyskies.org., is opposed to what he refers to as the escalating "outsourcing" of United pilot jobs to regional airlines, and out "off-shoring" of United pilot jobs to foreign airlines with which United Continental has code-sharing relationships, both of which he says compromise safety.
The ALPA branch at Continental was taken by surprise by Capt. Heppner's Monday deadline for seeking an NMB release in the absence of United's commitment to reach a new deal by June 1, according to internal union documents. Recently negotiators from both pilot branches and the company agreed on a process and a timeline designed to reach a deal by mid-June.
Subsequently, Capt. Jay Pierce, chief of the Continental ALPA group, said all of the pilots at both units "are extremely frustrated with not having a joint contract," and are "deeply disappointed with the overall progress to date. He said he met with Capt. Heppner to learn more details of his plan "and are in the process of fathering additional information … to determine how best to move forward from this point."
Write to Susan Carey at [email protected]
The ALPA branch at Continental was taken by surprise by Capt. Heppner's Monday deadline for seeking an NMB release in the absence of United's commitment to reach a new deal by June 1, according to internal union documents. Recently negotiators from both pilot branches and the company agreed on a process and a timeline designed to reach a deal by mid-June.
Subsequently, Capt. Jay Pierce, chief of the Continental ALPA group, said all of the pilots at both units "are extremely frustrated with not having a joint contract," and are "deeply disappointed with the overall progress to date. He said he met with Capt. Heppner to learn more details of his plan "and are in the process of f(g?)athering additional information … to determine how best to move forward from this point."
There you go, now it's in the Press.. which means, all Local Politicians from Illinois, Texas, New York, New Jersey, Virginia, Ohio, Colorado and California will be reading this at some point, and will be wondering "what is going on with Labor?"
The same Politicians that the UAL MEC Advisory Committee is going to try and influence~
Not to mention, the BoD and the Wall Str analysts.
Oh well
Motch
PS> AxlF16 and Slammer, good posts~
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...857367814.html
By SUSAN CAREY
Unionized pilots at United Continental Holdings Inc.'s UAL -1.13% United Airline subsidiary, impatient over the slow pace of contract negotiations aimed at reaching a new joint labor accord covering them and their counterparts at the Continental Airlines union, asked the Air Line Pilots Association to submit a request that United pilots be released from mediated contract negotiations.
If the National Mediation Board, the federal agency that oversees labor relations in the airline industry and is currently mediating the bargaining, decided the talks weren't fruitful, it could release the pilots into a so-called 30-day "cooling off" period, after which the pilots could strike. The NMB routinely receives such requests but doesn't honor them when talks seem to be making progress. The NMB didn't return a phone call on Monday. United, in a statement, said it is "committed to reaching agreements quickly, but those agreements must be fair to the company and fair to employees."
Capt. Jay Heppner, chairman of the ALPA leadership council representing the 6,500 United aviators, said his members "have been driven by an intransigent, out-of-touch management team that refuses to do its part in negotiating a collective bargaining agreement" that recognizes the sacrifices the pilots have made to United since its bankruptcy filing a decade ago.
Capt. Heppner, a 27-year United veteran who flies a Boeing 777, was elected last year to a two-year term as chief of the ALPA branch at United, and took office in January. In the middle of April, he warned his pilots that if United management didn't agree to complete the contract talks by June 1, he would seek an NMB release from the talks as a prelude to a possible word stoppage. The pilots and company have been in negotiations for nearly two years, with the task made more complex by the addition of the 4,500 Continental pilots as a result of the 2010 merger of the two carriers.
Capt. Heppner, who has directed the creation of a website called www.the unfriendlyskies.org., is opposed to what he refers to as the escalating "outsourcing" of United pilot jobs to regional airlines, and out "off-shoring" of United pilot jobs to foreign airlines with which United Continental has code-sharing relationships, both of which he says compromise safety.
The ALPA branch at Continental was taken by surprise by Capt. Heppner's Monday deadline for seeking an NMB release in the absence of United's commitment to reach a new deal by June 1, according to internal union documents. Recently negotiators from both pilot branches and the company agreed on a process and a timeline designed to reach a deal by mid-June.
Subsequently, Capt. Jay Pierce, chief of the Continental ALPA group, said all of the pilots at both units "are extremely frustrated with not having a joint contract," and are "deeply disappointed with the overall progress to date. He said he met with Capt. Heppner to learn more details of his plan "and are in the process of fathering additional information … to determine how best to move forward from this point."
Write to Susan Carey at [email protected]
The ALPA branch at Continental was taken by surprise by Capt. Heppner's Monday deadline for seeking an NMB release in the absence of United's commitment to reach a new deal by June 1, according to internal union documents. Recently negotiators from both pilot branches and the company agreed on a process and a timeline designed to reach a deal by mid-June.
Subsequently, Capt. Jay Pierce, chief of the Continental ALPA group, said all of the pilots at both units "are extremely frustrated with not having a joint contract," and are "deeply disappointed with the overall progress to date. He said he met with Capt. Heppner to learn more details of his plan "and are in the process of f(g?)athering additional information … to determine how best to move forward from this point."
There you go, now it's in the Press.. which means, all Local Politicians from Illinois, Texas, New York, New Jersey, Virginia, Ohio, Colorado and California will be reading this at some point, and will be wondering "what is going on with Labor?"
The same Politicians that the UAL MEC Advisory Committee is going to try and influence~
Not to mention, the BoD and the Wall Str analysts.
Oh well
Motch
PS> AxlF16 and Slammer, good posts~
04-30-2012, 05:38 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
OK.
I am really confused now.
1. Is Jay Happner asking for relase on behalf of the UAL pilots, or the CAL pilots, and/or both groups?
2. If he is asking for release of both groups of pilots, under what authority does he act?
3. Under the ALPA CBA, does another MEC MC have the authority to ask for such, and procedurally, how could the ALPA President honor such a request if the requester doesn't have legal authority to ask for it?
4. Did the CAL MEC vote on this as well?
5. Did the UAL MEC direct JH to do this, even though the CAL MEC may not have voted on it?
6. Have both MEC's voted to request that CA. Happner serve as the "joint spokesperson" on behalf of joint negotiations?
7. IF the ALPA President submits a request for relase of just the UAL pilots, where does that leave joint negotiations?
I am really confused now.
1. Is Jay Happner asking for relase on behalf of the UAL pilots, or the CAL pilots, and/or both groups?
2. If he is asking for release of both groups of pilots, under what authority does he act?
3. Under the ALPA CBA, does another MEC MC have the authority to ask for such, and procedurally, how could the ALPA President honor such a request if the requester doesn't have legal authority to ask for it?
4. Did the CAL MEC vote on this as well?
5. Did the UAL MEC direct JH to do this, even though the CAL MEC may not have voted on it?
6. Have both MEC's voted to request that CA. Happner serve as the "joint spokesperson" on behalf of joint negotiations?
7. IF the ALPA President submits a request for relase of just the UAL pilots, where does that leave joint negotiations?
04-30-2012, 05:48 PM
#36
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 767 Capt
Posts: 81
While I agree completely with you, I have to add my opinion. As much as I think Pierce is obstructing progress towards a JCBA and that we'd be better off without him, I don't think we have time for that.
BY FAR our best way ahead is to GET THESE MECs TOGETHER to act in unity. That means that the CAL MEC is going to have to accept that Pierce works for THEM and act accordingly.
I'd love to just start throwing the bad actors out, but it's not feasible now. We need to ASSERT OURSELVES since this union works for US.
BY FAR our best way ahead is to GET THESE MECs TOGETHER to act in unity. That means that the CAL MEC is going to have to accept that Pierce works for THEM and act accordingly.
I'd love to just start throwing the bad actors out, but it's not feasible now. We need to ASSERT OURSELVES since this union works for US.
Delta will have their second contract before we have our first. This Mgt team will pay themselves, because oh they are worth it, but no one else.
J
04-30-2012, 05:52 PM
#37
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Ben Franklin, Conan the Barbarian, and JCBA
Ben Franklin, at the signing of the Declaration of Independence:
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
Conan the Barbarian, paraphrased, at JCBA negotiations (including the warrior tribes of UALand and CALtopia:
"CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES, SEE HIM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU; HEAR THE LAMENTATIONS OF HIS SHAREHOLDERS!"
2 v 1. Tapes on; Fight's On!
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
Conan the Barbarian, paraphrased, at JCBA negotiations (including the warrior tribes of UALand and CALtopia:
"CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES, SEE HIM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU; HEAR THE LAMENTATIONS OF HIS SHAREHOLDERS!"
2 v 1. Tapes on; Fight's On!
04-30-2012, 05:59 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,887
So JP and JH met? That's what the WSJ is saying Pierce stated.?
And why the change of mind from some people here? When JP asked for the Profit Sharing, he was doing the right thing for the CAL pilots. But now when JH does something for the UAL pilots, he's wrong?
And why the change of mind from some people here? When JP asked for the Profit Sharing, he was doing the right thing for the CAL pilots. But now when JH does something for the UAL pilots, he's wrong?
04-30-2012, 06:29 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
You're obviously misreading me.
04-30-2012, 06:30 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: A-320 Capt
Posts: 270
I think this WSJ writer is pretty clueless, and doing some pretty creative interpretation of what's actually known.
On top of that, she writes like a six year-old. When did WSJ start hiring functional illiterates?
T/W
On top of that, she writes like a six year-old. When did WSJ start hiring functional illiterates?
T/W
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