Slammer

F16..I'm with you on the release...that specifically is not the issue for me or the CAL pilots I know. We don't know the plan, past what is currently known, a request for release. What if we get released? What if we get iced by the NMB for JH actions? What if it delays getting a TA? Those are the types of questions and assessments that should have been done Jointly with the experience, education and background from both unions to make the BEST decision. Bottomline, That's water under the bridge, so where do we go now...MEC/LC bringing the two groups together...as I stated earlier JP and JH are incapable.

gettinbumped

I, too, respectfully disagree. Nobody is asking you to blindly trust anybody. Just asking that you consider the fact that you are getting two conflicting stories, and review the evidence to determine who is headed down the right path.

None of the facts in JH's message are in dispute. Despite the constant foot dragging outlined today, one MC continues to claim things are going great. The evidence offered is constant talking about small group meetings, company promises, and no other plan. If this is effective, where are the results? Not ONE cost section settled in 2 YEARS. The other MC has been indicating for months that the pace is unsatisfactory and action is needed. He was called a "Debbie Downer" on this board. This announcement is not out of left field. He's been beating the drum for months. At ANY time, JP could have gotten on board. Sadly EVERY update has been the same broken record about great progress. 4 months of great progress updates with zero results. How many months until it rings hollow?

JH and the UAL pilot group have no hatred for CAL pilots (scabs excluded). He went out of his way to make that very clear when he filed a grievance against the company for cheating us on the profit sharing we were due.

Your assertion that the UAL MEC has railroaded and back doored the CAL MEC at every turn also doesn't accurately portray the facts. From the initial salvo of CAL MEC threatening to walk from joint negotiations over a completely ridiculous pay banding stance is not an example of good group effort. Every CAL MEC update and JP blast mail goes to great lengths to discredit the UAL MC and MEC. Not ONE of JH's updates have mentioned the lack of support and untenable positions occasionally discovered at the CAL MEC. Which tact is better for unity?

JH is doing his job, and it makes me sad that you don't see a) the necessity of this action, and b) how this action helps YOU. The Heppner plan seeks to immediately put an end to the atrocious working conditions you suffer, the ridiculous end around the company played on your scope, and the outsourcing of your jobs overseas. The alternative is the JP plan; to trust thr company to do the right thing and have once a week meetings in small groups with no decision makers present.

We want you at our side. I'm quite confident that if JH had felt JP and the CAL MEC would support a release request, they would have been included. But just as we were not willing to give into that RIDICULOUS position that the 747-777 would be banded, but the A320-737 would be unbanded (both clearly advantaging the CAL pilot group) we are no longer willing to wait for more management stall tactics and small group meetings. I hope that we will all put the egos aside and close ranks, but if not, I'm willing to put my job and future on the line to engage in a legal strike for YOU to get the contract you deserve.

DirectLawOnly

Yes! This!

gettinbumped

Just read this and I seem to have misinterpreted your other post. I fully agree that it would be HUGELY beneficial for the MEC's to very quickly close ranks. Both sides have been terrible at this so far.
Frats

AxlF16

Here's the bottom line:
Option 1: NMB says 'nice try, but no'. Continue negotiating per status quo. No change for you.
Option 2: NMB says '*** is wrong with you?! You're in timeout!". No change for you. You have ZERO idea if it impacted when we would've gotten the JCBA even if we didn't act.
Option 3: NMB says 'here is your proffer of Binding Arbitration'. BIG change for you! You could be looking at a picket line in 40 days!

If I were you I'd plan for the worst case COA.

Seriously, I don't know the plan either Slammer. Let's look at what's best for the combined pilot group and go from there. I've already told my rep that I think it's crucial to get the CAL MEC on board. He's convinced that they will all be in favor...just as our MEC is. This might not have been a joint push, but the result will be a joint gain.

Slammer

Oh really...you obviously don't understand the history between the two groups. Of course, its not every pilot at UA...but Ask any pilot at CAL with sometime on the line and they will tell you, that has historically been the case....birth from 83 and 85 and continues today. Im being honest about the realities of bringing these two culturally different pilot group together. It started well before this merger and not going away because we are tired of hearing it...

Slammer

Ditto on getting reps to come out of their corners. Agree with you on option 3.

AxlF16

Were you here in 83 or 85? Have you directly experienced any disdain from UAL pilots?

If you are indeed a 737 FO I suspect that you are repeating 2nd or 3rd hand info from family members or coworkers (I feel dirty typing that). I've been at UAL for 15 years and the ONLY negative thing I've heard about CAL pilots relates to the scabs. If anything, the UAL pilot group has been apathetic about CAL. There is absolutely NOTHING inherent in our two groups that should prevent unity. Your scabs can hang with our scabs the rest of us can drink beer and talk sh!t.

dogfood

Not true. I have no disdain, and I have NEVER heard of any disdain for the CAL pilots. I want the best for the ENTIRE pilot group.

throttleweenie

I can't think of any instances where there is any animosity with one group to the other. Of course, this and other forums DO NOT COUNT because guys get all chest-beat-y over stuff on forums that would be over & done in a heartbeat in person. Nobody can type fast enough to actually converse on a forum.

So, while some of us have differing opinions over details, we all are freakin' sick and tired of the stonewalling from management.

Lack of communication is a big deal to all of us, and I think we have to place a certain amount of trust in our MECs, given that anything said to the pilots publicly is the same as sending Jeff an email with a bullet-pointed outline.

This request for release is, to me, a very polarizing event. If Jeff had any clue that our pilots were in harmonious unity, he'd be signing tomorrow.

It's time to fish or cut bait.

I'm stocking my tackle box.

C/B

T/W