More CONFUSION
04-27-2012, 07:45 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: B777 CA - SFO
Posts: 730
To put another way, National CAN place a MEC into receivership. Who or what would compel them to do so is another thing. If the DAL pilots can openly threaten a decert with no action from their own guy in the ALPA Presidents office, then I think you'd hafta do quite a bit to get them that miffed.
04-27-2012, 07:56 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
To put another way, National CAN place a MEC into receivership. Who or what would compel them to do so is another thing. If the DAL pilots can openly threaten a decert with no action from their own guy in the ALPA Presidents office, then I think you'd hafta do quite a bit to get them that miffed.
Placing an MEC into receivership is no easy task. Article XXI of the CBL is worth reading. We do not meet the standards as the merger is not a bankruptcy or a liquidation, and therefore the ALPA President and the Executive Council's hands are tied on the matter.
04-27-2012, 08:14 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
here is the good news.
The JCBA process, through its leadership is so dysfunctional that the buerocracy of ALPA cannot and willnot be controlled.
Therefore, UCH Management cannot speak to the pilots "through" their elected leaders to influence anything or anyone.
It's like the privates in the US Army telling the second lieutants in the Polish air force where to fly and having them interpret for the Japanese Navy.
Talk about "joint maneuvers?"..............What was the objective again?
The JCBA process, through its leadership is so dysfunctional that the buerocracy of ALPA cannot and willnot be controlled.
Therefore, UCH Management cannot speak to the pilots "through" their elected leaders to influence anything or anyone.
It's like the privates in the US Army telling the second lieutants in the Polish air force where to fly and having them interpret for the Japanese Navy.
Talk about "joint maneuvers?"..............What was the objective again?
04-27-2012, 09:41 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: EWR B737FO
Posts: 225
Didn't take long for JP to side with management and seperate himself for the UAL MEC. Hope the CAL side is done with this guy. He is nothing more than a puppet.
I just hope that JH does not give in to this guy and we start an all out war against JP at the UAL MEC level.
I just hope that JH does not give in to this guy and we start an all out war against JP at the UAL MEC level.
04-28-2012, 03:45 AM
#25
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 38
All out war, is as wise as going public and requesting a release without telling the other partner in Joint NEgotiations. Its nonsensical and destructive. Didn't need to be this way and ALL that was required was to respect the CAL MEC. You can hammer at JP and the MEC but that want change anything. It just builds up more walls. Believe me, everyone wants a contract yesterday but not if it means we (CAL) are dismissed and ignored on decisions that directly impact US. If we ( both CAL and UAL) MECs don't learn quickly how to work together we are on a fast track for separate contracts and furloughs...so rather than bash each other or stay on the destruction tour, why don't we focus on our own MECs to at least come to the table, put there swords and egos away. If they are not willing to meet within the coming weeks IMO, WE are doomed wrt a JCBA this summer.
I support JH and the UAL MEC and any all attacks on the CAL MEC and the CAL Master Chairman. If the UAL pilots are harmed by JP actions then let's make sure we all suffer.
04-28-2012, 04:12 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
The CAL MEC is "non confrontational"
That is not a slam or a negative comment.
It is just the truth.
When the pilots were restricted from having water in the cockpit, as in no water bottles just a few short years ago we decided to meet this challenge by setting up water rest stations at the hub airports.
Well, management decided no on that, and told airport security not to let us bring water to our pilots.
Rather than going public, we just let it go. No water was issued, but a short time later management did give in and let us have our water.
This is the same management team. They didn't want us to drink water, you better believe they don't want us to have a contract.
In fairness a different MEC Chairman, but the pervasive attitude prevails.
However, I do recall, when restricted from adding gas, the MEC Vice Chairman went over the Chairmens head and went public and the MEC had his back. It wasn't much longer after that, that the MEC Chair was recalled. When was that....2005/06?
The MEC Chair works for the MEC...................lets roll.
That is not a slam or a negative comment.
It is just the truth.
When the pilots were restricted from having water in the cockpit, as in no water bottles just a few short years ago we decided to meet this challenge by setting up water rest stations at the hub airports.
Well, management decided no on that, and told airport security not to let us bring water to our pilots.
Rather than going public, we just let it go. No water was issued, but a short time later management did give in and let us have our water.
This is the same management team. They didn't want us to drink water, you better believe they don't want us to have a contract.
In fairness a different MEC Chairman, but the pervasive attitude prevails.
However, I do recall, when restricted from adding gas, the MEC Vice Chairman went over the Chairmens head and went public and the MEC had his back. It wasn't much longer after that, that the MEC Chair was recalled. When was that....2005/06?
The MEC Chair works for the MEC...................lets roll.
04-28-2012, 04:35 AM
#27
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 38
The CAL MEC is "non confrontational"
That is not a slam or a negative comment.
It is just the truth.
When the pilots were restricted from having water in the cockpit, as in no water bottles just a few short years ago we decided to meet this challenge by setting up water rest stations at the hub airports.
Well, management decided no on that, and told airport security not to let us bring water to our pilots.
Rather than going public, we just let it go. No water was issued, but a short time later management did give in and let us have our water.
This is the same management team. They didn't want us to drink water, you better believe they don't want us to have a contract.
In fairness a different MEC Chairman, but the pervasive attitude prevails.
However, I do recall, when restricted from adding gas, the MEC Vice Chairman went over the Chairmens head and went public and the MEC had his back. It wasn't much longer after that, that the MEC Chair was recalled. When was that....2005/06?
The MEC Chair works for the MEC...................lets roll.
That is not a slam or a negative comment.
It is just the truth.
When the pilots were restricted from having water in the cockpit, as in no water bottles just a few short years ago we decided to meet this challenge by setting up water rest stations at the hub airports.
Well, management decided no on that, and told airport security not to let us bring water to our pilots.
Rather than going public, we just let it go. No water was issued, but a short time later management did give in and let us have our water.
This is the same management team. They didn't want us to drink water, you better believe they don't want us to have a contract.
In fairness a different MEC Chairman, but the pervasive attitude prevails.
However, I do recall, when restricted from adding gas, the MEC Vice Chairman went over the Chairmens head and went public and the MEC had his back. It wasn't much longer after that, that the MEC Chair was recalled. When was that....2005/06?
The MEC Chair works for the MEC...................lets roll.
If you are trying to say that your MEC controls your master chairman then you may be off. It's possible they are being intimidated by the MC.
When JH asked for a joint meeting to explain his plan for release, JP said "NO". JP tries to control and filter all information getting to the CAL MEC members. Why don't you ask your LEC reps. to communicate with the UAL reps. kinda like the Vice-Chair did the in the fuel situation above - Can't hurt to gain insight and knowledge. Maybe when Pierce is in Paris on vacation.
04-28-2012, 05:04 AM
#28
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 467
Not sure what you trying to say, but it appears that it's JP would make a better waterboy than getting in the business of contracts - Understood!
If you are trying to say that your MEC controls your master chairman then you may be off. It's possible they are being intimidated by the MC.
When JH asked for a joint meeting to explain his plan for release, JP said "NO". JP tries to control and filter all information getting to the CAL MEC members. Why don't you ask your LEC reps. to communicate with the UAL reps. kinda like the Vice-Chair did the in the fuel situation above - Can't hurt to gain insight and knowledge. Maybe when Pierce is in Paris on vacation.
If you are trying to say that your MEC controls your master chairman then you may be off. It's possible they are being intimidated by the MC.
When JH asked for a joint meeting to explain his plan for release, JP said "NO". JP tries to control and filter all information getting to the CAL MEC members. Why don't you ask your LEC reps. to communicate with the UAL reps. kinda like the Vice-Chair did the in the fuel situation above - Can't hurt to gain insight and knowledge. Maybe when Pierce is in Paris on vacation.
The CAL MEC reps are smart enough to pick up the phone and call the UAL MEC reps (vise a versa). This was done in the past when merger scare 01 occured in 2008.
I think the recent blastmail was done with 2 objectives in mind:
1. To put pressure on the UAL MEC to get those reps to bring JH to the table under JP's conditions.
2. Solidify his control over the CAL MEC, and for him to figure out who, within the CAL MEC has his back, and who doesn't.
04-28-2012, 06:45 AM
#30
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
He's going elsewhere on "vacation"......Paris is actually 'Union work'.
Just the facts.
As I told my LEC-Rep yesterday loud & clear, kiss the 'frog meeting' good-bye. JP needs to put his a$$ in a room, with his MEC, along with the "The Hep" & his MEC (along with their lobbyist who insist on beint there too).....and NOT leave the confines of those 4 walls till they can come out on a joint/agreed upon plan......PERIOD. I'm SICK of hearing how much $$$ is cost to hold an MEC meeting, let alone a joint metting!! Having the above meeting, no matter the cost, is an absolute MUST. The $$$ we can obtain on the tail-end is worth WAY MORE by way of getting this circus on the road with a JCBA.
We can sit here and pi$$ & moan all we want on a Forum/Board....It does NOTHING but fester on the slow train to NO WHERE.
"Actions talk, and the straight-out bullchit walks".
I encourage everyone to get off the boards and CALL any, and all LEC Reps (MEC peeps). Tell them to do WHATEVER it takes to put those two EGO's in a joint MEC run meeting.....Marching orders are given.
Just the facts.
As I told my LEC-Rep yesterday loud & clear, kiss the 'frog meeting' good-bye. JP needs to put his a$$ in a room, with his MEC, along with the "The Hep" & his MEC (along with their lobbyist who insist on beint there too).....and NOT leave the confines of those 4 walls till they can come out on a joint/agreed upon plan......PERIOD. I'm SICK of hearing how much $$$ is cost to hold an MEC meeting, let alone a joint metting!! Having the above meeting, no matter the cost, is an absolute MUST. The $$$ we can obtain on the tail-end is worth WAY MORE by way of getting this circus on the road with a JCBA.
We can sit here and pi$$ & moan all we want on a Forum/Board....It does NOTHING but fester on the slow train to NO WHERE.
"Actions talk, and the straight-out bullchit walks".
I encourage everyone to get off the boards and CALL any, and all LEC Reps (MEC peeps). Tell them to do WHATEVER it takes to put those two EGO's in a joint MEC run meeting.....Marching orders are given.
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