CAL union agrees to release initiative
04-21-2012, 06:19 PM
#31
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: IAH 737 CA
Posts: 690
That's because it wasn't a Gordon story, but rather one that was often repeated by scabs that were happy to be making $2k year more than their single wide trailer living, often unemployed neighbors in areas that have since been developed into the Woodlands, Spring, Kingwood and Humble in suburban Houston, TX.
It was a way to make themselves feel better about the decision they made to go to work for Lorenzo without union representation. A way to forestall the inevitable re-organization of the airline. They knew that union on the horizon would eventually hold them accountable for their actions in 1983.
It was a way to make themselves feel better about the decision they made to go to work for Lorenzo without union representation. A way to forestall the inevitable re-organization of the airline. They knew that union on the horizon would eventually hold them accountable for their actions in 1983.
Nope, Gordo story. Happy and ignorant is the split-tail, flying a 747-400, and having to be screamed at to miss the mountain in SFO. Unclench Beavis. There is no WOM, FOM, or checklist that will lead you to the conclusion that we ARE on the same page. I'd say use some common sense here but you apparently lost that a long time ago.
04-21-2012, 07:22 PM
#33
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Position: 787 CA
Posts: 425
04-21-2012, 07:31 PM
#34
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Position: 787 CA
Posts: 425
+1. FLIBS keeps spewing that line "fair to the pilots and fair to the company". I couldn't give a rats ass what some souless corporate robber baron thinks is "fair". When it comes time to vote - or walk - all that matters is what I think is fair for me and my family.
04-22-2012, 06:29 AM
#35
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Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Guam guy:
Both MECs have posted info about this. But in a nut shell after agreeing to a mid-June timeline (they all assumed mid-June this year
) the negotiating group working on R&I was making progress and then after a break the UCH boys came back and annulled all the progress and returned to their Oct 2010 position.
Essentially the UCH team withdrew their position after agreements had been made at the table and combine this with the time table of mid-June they are negotiating in bad faith in the mediated talks.
Both MECs have posted info about this. But in a nut shell after agreeing to a mid-June timeline (they all assumed mid-June this year
) the negotiating group working on R&I was making progress and then after a break the UCH boys came back and annulled all the progress and returned to their Oct 2010 position.Essentially the UCH team withdrew their position after agreements had been made at the table and combine this with the time table of mid-June they are negotiating in bad faith in the mediated talks.
04-22-2012, 09:27 AM
#36
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Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Guam guy:
Both MECs have posted info about this. But in a nut shell after agreeing to a mid-June timeline (they all assumed mid-June this year ) the negotiating group working on R&I was making progress and then after a break the UCH boys came back and annulled all the progress and returned to their Oct 2010 position.
Essentially the UCH team withdrew their position after agreements had been made at the table and combine this with the time table of mid-June they are negotiating in bad faith in the mediated talks.
Both MECs have posted info about this. But in a nut shell after agreeing to a mid-June timeline (they all assumed mid-June this year
) the negotiating group working on R&I was making progress and then after a break the UCH boys came back and annulled all the progress and returned to their Oct 2010 position.Essentially the UCH team withdrew their position after agreements had been made at the table and combine this with the time table of mid-June they are negotiating in bad faith in the mediated talks.
While I agree on the R&I issue being talked about by both sides, I haven't seen the "mid-June" date mentioned by the UAL MEC that was referenced in the CAL MEC update. Can you point me to that one because I could have missed it.
Anyway, my opinion of the CAL update was that it was a masterpiece of political crap and non-commital by any measure. Again, my opinion.
Rather than put stipulations on when they would support a request for release, they should have just stated that they will co-file a request for release on 30 April if the company doesn't commit to a 1 June deadline.
Wow, that would have taken all of one sentence for them to write.
Frats,
Lee
04-22-2012, 09:52 AM
#37
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: EWR B737FO
Posts: 225
Regular,
While I agree on the R&I issue being talked about by both sides, I haven't seen the "mid-June" date mentioned by the UAL MEC that was referenced in the CAL MEC update. Can you point me to that one because I could have missed it.
Anyway, my opinion of the CAL update was that it was a masterpiece of political crap and non-commital by any measure. Again, my opinion.
Rather than put stipulations on when they would support a request for release, they should have just stated that they will co-file a request for release on 30 April if the company doesn't commit to a 1 June deadline.
Wow, that would have taken all of one sentence for them to write.
Frats,
Lee
While I agree on the R&I issue being talked about by both sides, I haven't seen the "mid-June" date mentioned by the UAL MEC that was referenced in the CAL MEC update. Can you point me to that one because I could have missed it.
Anyway, my opinion of the CAL update was that it was a masterpiece of political crap and non-commital by any measure. Again, my opinion.
Rather than put stipulations on when they would support a request for release, they should have just stated that they will co-file a request for release on 30 April if the company doesn't commit to a 1 June deadline.
Wow, that would have taken all of one sentence for them to write.
Frats,
Lee
You are right. It was non- committal because the 5k pilots at CAL and MEC were blind- sided by your MEC. Can't write a blank check of support until they understand the strategy and risk to a JCBA. The goal is a JCBA..not necessarily follow your MECs decisions. The fact that you blindsided CAL, is more reason to NOT commit to a release request, UNTIL the risk to prolonging negotiations is understood and protocols are in-place to PREVENT either MEC from going maverick. Keep in mind, JH, JP, Sr MGt and the arbitrator agreed to terms of a TA by mid June...so why did JH feel the need to pull the trigger apart from discussions with CAL.? Perhaps there were different interpretations of the meeting? If so, sit down with the other partner and develop a joint strategy. Has any UA guys called him on the carpet for this failure?
04-22-2012, 10:53 AM
#39
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 169
Could not agree with you more.
I noticed that less than a few hours following the announcement from the CAL-MEC, it still was not quite 'good enough' for some. I don't know how much more he (JP) could have said to support "The Hep's" motion voiced earlier in the week??
For those "soothsayers" (and even 'naysayers'), give it a break!! Why not reserve judgement till the "proposed" proverbial line of June 1st is upon us? As some have expressed in other threads, 'we have waited a decade'.....What's another 40 days (till June 1st) to see if JP's actions speak to his words??
Save the pop-shots till then??
I noticed that less than a few hours following the announcement from the CAL-MEC, it still was not quite 'good enough' for some. I don't know how much more he (JP) could have said to support "The Hep's" motion voiced earlier in the week??
For those "soothsayers" (and even 'naysayers'), give it a break!! Why not reserve judgement till the "proposed" proverbial line of June 1st is upon us? As some have expressed in other threads, 'we have waited a decade'.....What's another 40 days (till June 1st) to see if JP's actions speak to his words??
Save the pop-shots till then??
04-22-2012, 11:49 AM
#40
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Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Lee:
I could be wrong aboutreading the mid-June from the UAL side. I read about four different releases from my council, the MEC and the boards so I may have combined them. But, I am sure I saw it in one of the UAL releases, maybe my council's email.
Important to note, the CAL MEC did not reject and while many would have expected them to bend over and kiss the UAL MEC's feet, I personally felt the response was appropriate.
If there is any one thing which caught my attention it is the fear which came out when JP mentioned getting a release. For almost all of the pilots at both airlines this is the first real hint of a serious pilot action that they would be required to put their job on the line for (those furloughed not included).
It is always easy to talk tough and rattle sabers but the first time one has to walkaway from, not get laid off, from the job that feeds their families truth rises to the surface like cream in milk. The very mentioning of a release means this kind of decision is at hand.
I could be wrong aboutreading the mid-June from the UAL side. I read about four different releases from my council, the MEC and the boards so I may have combined them. But, I am sure I saw it in one of the UAL releases, maybe my council's email.
Important to note, the CAL MEC did not reject and while many would have expected them to bend over and kiss the UAL MEC's feet, I personally felt the response was appropriate.
If there is any one thing which caught my attention it is the fear which came out when JP mentioned getting a release. For almost all of the pilots at both airlines this is the first real hint of a serious pilot action that they would be required to put their job on the line for (those furloughed not included).
It is always easy to talk tough and rattle sabers but the first time one has to walkaway from, not get laid off, from the job that feeds their families truth rises to the surface like cream in milk. The very mentioning of a release means this kind of decision is at hand.
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