LeeFXDWG

Well said. I think your original post merely struck a nerve with some reading some type of perceived superiority relative to the CAL "newhires". I would hope that UAL and CAL pilots would be receptive to the opinions each has on any given subject. Neither side has ownership of a position to "educate" IMO. Each group has a different history that in the end will hopefully lead to learning from the combined past mistakes. In the end game, one can only hope that the degree of how bad it sucks on both sides will be greatly reduced for the combined group under the JCBA.

Currently there are provisions in both contracts which are better than their counterpart. With any luck, the final product (whenever that comes) will be something all can find value in and see as an improvement for all pilots.

The sad reality is that before you can effectively negotiate with the company (assuming they are sincerely negotiating) you must first come to a negotiated position between the two MECs on all issues to make a proposal to the company as well as responding to any counter offers. There obviously has to be some give and take in that evolution between the groups.

Not an easy process for sure.

Frats,
Lee

SpecialTracking

I never said anything about unionism education. In the simplest terms, I suggested CAL pilots could glean some information about what UAL had in their pre bankruptcy contract. Scope is easy, it's the other nuances in the contract I was referring to. If CAL wants to share what they had in their pre bankruptcy 1 contract, or even some gems in their current agreement, I would love to hear some ideas.

Yes, both of our contracts are in currently in the gutter. Information is key if/when we are presented with a TA. Will we be presented with a TA or sold a TA?

Imo, we should not be presented a contract that will pass 50+1. 50+1 will sow a path of future division. One element preventing that is to know where we have been so we know where we are going.

ewrbasedpilot

Whatever.............. if they're that into themselves they can buy their own fricking dinner, I could really care less. So much for trying to "welcome the other guys". I guess they don't watch me too close though as I've bought a few already. Probably quite a big surprise to someone as superior as yourself. About the only stories they talk about is how their fellow pilots and company SOLD THEM OUT.............

ewrbasedpilot

I'll test my "helicopter skills" against your fixed wing skills any day and leave you in the dirt.

Lerxst

Good post, Father. I have had these very discussions with the UA brethern I have flown with. There is no way that this deal is gonna get un***ked, so I would rather go forward armed with the best knowledge on what mistakes were made in the past and how to prevent them in the future. That can only be done by soliciting from and sharing information with my brothers in blue. I have gotten over the arbitrary territorial "who is bringing what" to the table and rather focusing on what we need put on the joint table going forward.

Andy

I'll be IAH based, but I've got the feeling that doesn't mean much when they're short bodies.
I've had some very good conversations with my LCAL brothers, some over dinner.
Only one subject's off limits: SLI. None of us have control over SLI and discussing it is akin to discussing the existance of Israel between Christians and Muslims.

That sounds about right. So far I haven't heard of any disciplinary action taken for refusing an assignment by stating you're fatigued. And it's much more common to state that you're fatigued than at LUAL.
Everyone coming to LCAL should expect to get run through the ringer while on reserve.

ewrbasedpilot

Andy, the few UAL guys I've flown with have been IAH based, so I'm sure we'll cross paths sooner or later, especially with the "properly staffed" airline we're running.. As far as the SLI goes, I don't know enough about it and like it was in the military "it's way above my paygrade" is the only appropriate answer. I hope the CAL guys are treating you well, and dinner is still on me if we fly together. My best to you.

ewrbasedpilot

As have most of us.............unfortunately a few are still bringing "baggage" to the table........................... It's certainly time to move along and get things in OUR court for a change.

Andy

So far, everyone has been a class act. I've been passed a couple of stories from furloughees with a rare bad experience but I know that's happening on both sides of the fence. There will always be some that have a hard time dealing with their cheese being moved.

Pilotgolfer, I did rough calculations on how many classes need to be below me before I can hold a line in IAH. My SWAG is 8 classes after me and I'll have enough people below me to hold a line. My understanding is that you can get a line faster in EWR.
Applying that information to your case, if you wait until ~4 months after being offered a class to come back, you should be able to hold a line after IOE.

pilotgolfer

What size classes are you assuming? Do you think they will increase class size beyond the 4 pilot/class planned over the summer? I don't mind sucking it up for a few months so I don't run the risk of not being active when the contract is signed.

Also, I'm toward the bottom of the United batch so if CAL starts doing real new hires off the street, that would be better for me.