Former calex are doomed
03-21-2012, 07:57 PM
#31
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 73
I'm a flow through, and don't expect any type of seniority windfall. I have my issues with ALPA, but more so with mgt. That being said "truthhurts" is a very angry person.
03-21-2012, 08:01 PM
#32
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: EWR 756 Captain
Posts: 70
This entire thread is bulls#!t !
You assume that everyone hired in 05 and beyond is from Express.
That they're all just young kids with no experience, unlike the "brain surgeons"at UAL.
My early 05 class had 4 Express guys, 4 military (one C5 I think) The rest of us had plenty of previous airline experience. (10,000 hours and 4 type ratings for one example)
Remember, UAL hired plenty of 300 hour (+ a vajayjay) wonders all through the 90's. I personally flew with 6 or 8 gals (and interns) who had a lot left to learn in the right seat of a commuter, but 4 months later they were gone to UAL with NO PIC.
So that person deserves to go ahead of someone at CAL just because they got hired at UAL first? Sorry , ain't gonna happen.
You assume that everyone hired in 05 and beyond is from Express.
That they're all just young kids with no experience, unlike the "brain surgeons"at UAL.
My early 05 class had 4 Express guys, 4 military (one C5 I think) The rest of us had plenty of previous airline experience. (10,000 hours and 4 type ratings for one example)
Remember, UAL hired plenty of 300 hour (+ a vajayjay) wonders all through the 90's. I personally flew with 6 or 8 gals (and interns) who had a lot left to learn in the right seat of a commuter, but 4 months later they were gone to UAL with NO PIC.
So that person deserves to go ahead of someone at CAL just because they got hired at UAL first? Sorry , ain't gonna happen.
Last edited by Speedtape; 03-21-2012 at 08:14 PM.
03-21-2012, 08:09 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 152
I was hired at CAL in '05 not Express. 8000 hours of flight time. A good friend of mine was hired in '05 and not Express. My friend could of held Guam captain on the last bid.
and that is the truth sorry if it hurts.
and that is the truth sorry if it hurts.
03-21-2012, 08:14 PM
#34
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
Don't worry, it will be relative plus or minus a couple percentage points from your current seniority. They will fence the 744 and 787 for 5 years, and that will be it. Look at DL/NW for answers.
03-21-2012, 08:31 PM
#35
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,134
Again, that's if IIRC. But looking at a CAL seniority list it seems to be as I remember.
Last edited by xjtguy; 03-21-2012 at 08:54 PM.
03-22-2012, 03:28 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,892
The answer is it doesn't matter. Whenever the three arbitrator panel decides the pilot and aircraft "snapshots" should have been taken they will determine how many mainline pilots were required to fly the fleets at each airline, and from the demographics of the groups and the flying and compensation they brought to the merger they will determine how to merge those pilot jobs. Ancillary issues that can be proven with solid evidence will affect things on the margin but once the arbitrators decide how to merge those slots from each airline they will then fill in those UAL/CAL slots starting with the pilots from the top of both lists.
Also, no matter how much we debate our arguments on APC will have zero effect on the outcome.
Also, no matter how much we debate our arguments on APC will have zero effect on the outcome.
03-22-2012, 03:34 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,892
That's funny, because other than a hundred and fifty or so furloughs, everyone on property at pmCO has been working since around that hire date (actually Nov 07 hires). Not likely to happen if you are truly a 10/07 hire at UAL. That "longevity" thing in the merger process. I do realize we all want the best outcome.
03-22-2012, 04:40 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 621
IIRC, early 2006 was the LAST of the P.I.G.S., NOT flow ups/"Shindler's List', they finished up in 2005. I flew with one that went at that time. With the LAST 4 going in March 2006. I flew with them as well. One in 2005 before they (the last 4) had dates, and the 2 others were on their last few trip at XJT. The 4th was hired directly into the training department and had a slightly offset CALEX hire date from the other 3 but was still in the last of the P.I.G. category.
Again, that's if IIRC. But looking at a CAL seniority list it seems to be as I remember.
Again, that's if IIRC. But looking at a CAL seniority list it seems to be as I remember.
What does IIRC mean?
03-22-2012, 06:08 AM
#39
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
This entire thread is bulls#!t !
You assume that everyone hired in 05 and beyond is from Express.
That they're all just young kids with no experience, unlike the "brain surgeons"at UAL.
My early 05 class had 4 Express guys, 4 military (one C5 I think) The rest of us had plenty of previous airline experience. (10,000 hours and 4 type ratings for one example)
Remember, UAL hired plenty of 300 hour (+ a vajayjay) wonders all through the 90's. I personally flew with 6 or 8 gals (and interns) who had a lot left to learn in the right seat of a commuter, but 4 months later they were gone to UAL with NO PIC.
You assume that everyone hired in 05 and beyond is from Express.
That they're all just young kids with no experience, unlike the "brain surgeons"at UAL.
My early 05 class had 4 Express guys, 4 military (one C5 I think) The rest of us had plenty of previous airline experience. (10,000 hours and 4 type ratings for one example)
Remember, UAL hired plenty of 300 hour (+ a vajayjay) wonders all through the 90's. I personally flew with 6 or 8 gals (and interns) who had a lot left to learn in the right seat of a commuter, but 4 months later they were gone to UAL with NO PIC.
Nov 07 hire, ex Waterskier.. in my class of 16, we had 4 mil (myself included as a C-5 FE), a handful of Regional guys, a couple of 135 guys and I believe one or two Coex.
Yes, there are many "G" numbers (and others) who are ex Coex/flow through's but they do not make up the entire bottom of the CAL list..
Unfortunately there are a handful of pilots on both side, that have some hatred of all things ALPA (my opinion) and spew their "thoughts" of history and facts. Every now and then, they do bring up a valid point.. but it's usually lost in rants that they post.
Again, the bottom of the CAL List is not all Coex.. and, the few G numbers I've spoken with, none of them are expecting "super seniority" nor do they have a undying love for JP. (They don't hate him either.. just indifferent).
It is what it is~
Fly Safe, Fly the Contract
Motch
PS> Hope I can write "that".. just got banned from another Forum for writing "Fly The Contract"! lol
03-22-2012, 06:24 AM
#40
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
No, that's not how it works. It will be category and class, and throw in relative seniority + or - a couple current seniority percentages. Look at the closest merger to your size, DL/NW. Look at that REALLY close. That's the way it goes. Fence the 744s for UAL guys and 787s for CAL guys for 5 years and there you have it. Nailed it.
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