Former calex are doomed
03-21-2012, 01:11 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
For most flow through's, their date of hire is the date that they transitioned to CAL. There are some pilots that were offered deferrals due to short staffing at CalEx. Those pilots retained the date of hire based on the class they would have started in but did not transition until later.
I don't know about the Bar Harbor or Rocky guys. They had different deals.
I don't know about the Bar Harbor or Rocky guys. They had different deals.
Thank you! What years did the PFT start and end at CalEx? I know it was PFT in 96-97 but didn't it end shortly after that?
Last edited by pilotgolfer; 03-21-2012 at 02:16 PM.
03-21-2012, 01:40 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 621
Your simplistic process and formula are an insult to wiser pilots.
The seniority integration process is extremely complicated and contentious. It is also a very expensive process. Furthermore, your assumption that an arbitrator will be fair and without bias is naive.
Right now we are discussing 5 year CAL pilots who think they are going to have super seniority over 15 year UAL pilots. You have not considered that UAL continues to park mostly B756's which will contribute to even more senior displaced pilots. Do you expect to gain super seniority over them too? When does this fairy tale end?
The seniority integration process is extremely complicated and contentious. It is also a very expensive process. Furthermore, your assumption that an arbitrator will be fair and without bias is naive.
Right now we are discussing 5 year CAL pilots who think they are going to have super seniority over 15 year UAL pilots. You have not considered that UAL continues to park mostly B756's which will contribute to even more senior displaced pilots. Do you expect to gain super seniority over them too? When does this fairy tale end?
I'll take your bizarre redirection to mean that the answer is, "No" you do not know the makeup of the seniority list at CAL.
03-21-2012, 01:59 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 41
Old CAL. TY. I stand corrected. I said "Two seniority dates" when the correct response was "Seniority / Longevity."
03-21-2012, 02:48 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Why are you bringing this up with all that we have going on? If you are trying to make a suttle point about many Coex guys being prostitutes then you better look at the UAL hiring ranks from '96-'00. Plenty of PFT er's in that group. Btw I didn't.
03-21-2012, 03:15 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,083
That's because you don't realize how many errors there are in his posts. That's not a slam on you, you can't be expected to have access to the information the CAL pilots do, but his stories are easily dismantled.
03-21-2012, 06:53 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 520
Hired at ual in 10/07. After the panel gets done with it i feel pretty cconfident i go above anyone from cal near my date based on career projections. Book it!
Truth hurts brings up some valid points.
Seniority brought over from calex. Freaking hilarious! Never gonna happen!
Guess those people are still calling it a merger
Truth hurts brings up some valid points.
Seniority brought over from calex. Freaking hilarious! Never gonna happen!
Guess those people are still calling it a merger
03-21-2012, 07:38 PM
#28
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Hired at ual in 10/07. After the panel gets done with it i feel pretty cconfident i go above anyone from cal near my date based on career projections. Book it!
Truth hurts brings up some valid points.
Seniority brought over from calex. Freaking hilarious! Never gonna happen!
Guess those people are still calling it a merger
Truth hurts brings up some valid points.
Seniority brought over from calex. Freaking hilarious! Never gonna happen!
Guess those people are still calling it a merger
But as to this "Franke (SP?) Report", well, I can agree with that.
I may not agree with TruthHurts on anything, but one thing I believe in is his ability to present a question and argue his position. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be posting. Does it make you feel good calling somebody a slicktie? I've got more time in Union Airlines than you do past diapers. You are not that important!
Okay, I did see two questions:
1. Who in the hell do you think it will be -- A 15 year UAL pilot? Dream On.
2. You know the old saying "You cut your nose off to spider face?"
2. You know the old saying "You cut your nose off to spider face?"
For most flow through's, their date of hire is the date that they transitioned to CAL. There are some pilots that were offered deferrals due to short staffing at CalEx. Those pilots retained the date of hire based on the class they would have started in but did not transition until later.
But if I'm not mistaken the guys that were a part of this deal were early to mid 1990s guys at Coex and then we're held back. The date they'd originally flowed to CAL was their seniority date. There were some deals worked out on how that worked but no they weren't using their Coex hire dates.
BTW, the one guy I know who did this was a 94 hire Coex hire, I believe he did the pref interview and was ahead of some at Coex who failed the pref interview but flowed anyways. He was held back but eventually went to CAL. He was senior enough to be a EWR 767 A before going EWR 777 B recently.
I don't think the guys held back (unless they did it in the 2000s again) are junior in any way shape or form.
I do not believe anybody in their right mind can operate with two seniority dates when it comes to bidding. That's nonsensical.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 03-21-2012 at 07:41 PM. Reason: went to the Michael Scott "spider face" instead of "spite your face?"
03-21-2012, 07:49 PM
#29
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: IAH 737 CA
Posts: 690
Hired at ual in 10/07. After the panel gets done with it i feel pretty cconfident i go above anyone from cal near my date based on career projections. Book it!
Truth hurts brings up some valid points.
Seniority brought over from calex. Freaking hilarious! Never gonna happen!
Guess those people are still calling it a merger
Truth hurts brings up some valid points.
Seniority brought over from calex. Freaking hilarious! Never gonna happen!
Guess those people are still calling it a merger
Hope it works for you. Will you hold a grude and threaten to sue if you dont?
03-21-2012, 07:54 PM
#30
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
Former CALEX pilots now working at CAL, are terrified. They know the huge UAL Seniority Integration Steamroller is right around the corner. Because of this, they will support the rat Jay Pierce no matter what. He gives them a sense of security.
This member fully supports ALPA and our seniority system. UAL pilots support ALPA and the seniority system. Where as, many former CALEX pilots do not support ALPA but support the small clique of their junior pilots who have seized our union. Many former CALEX pilots do not respect our seniority system and in fact attempt to undermine the rest of us at every opportunity.
Those who now control our union are supporting policies that undermine our seniority system. PBS is the principle violator. Our work rules do not respect seniority. Management is now cross training pilots to work either cockpit seat. This is probably the most aggregious threat to seniority and is a direct threat to junior pilots. Our union says and does nothing. In fact, J.P. and Dave Owens have helped do these things to us. Their punishment is being promoted to higher and higher union positions.
Former CALEX pilots have been causing trouble since coming to work here. Several were so arrogant and belligerent they were terminated during initial training. Today, they are causing incredible conflict problems within our cockpit. Since hiring CALEX pilots there have been more cockpit conflict since the infamous CAL Strike. Professional Standards has been forced to hire more case workers. They are so innundated with investigations that it takes them weeks sometimes months to finalize.
CAL union leaders are angering the UAL MEC by undermining the negotiation process.
The point being is that former CALEX pilots and those who have seized our union, are antagonistic and causing much trouble. This arrogance stems from ignorance and a sense of entitlement. They respect no one and prioritize their needs over the rest of us.
There is no hope for this group of pilots. They are immature, arrogant and extremely nasty bunch. Just read most of their posts. They have an innate hatred of anyone who dare oppose them. It's their way or no way.
Their immature rants will be short lived. As I said, the UAL Seniority Juggernaut is bearing down on them and it is only a matter of time former CALEX pilots will come to grips with reality.
This senior pilot has long tried to talk common sense with many of our junior pilots. When one on one, they can be reasoned with. It is only when they bunch together (I.E., chat rooms, etc) do they raise their ugly head.
In conclusion, the former CALEX pilot has no ally's. They have managed to anger all around them and in the process have isolated themselves into a relatively small group who refuse any outside thought. Most of our senior pilots cannot stand working with them. They have also managed to anger UAL MEC and their pilots. In real terms it's about 1,000 former CALEX pilots v about 11,000 ALPA strong. The most junior pilots of the bunch are CALEX and they actually think they are going to some how wrestle super seniorty. Merger Committee Chairman CA Jim Bruscia is a senior pilot with a chip on his shoulder. He thinks that his PEX pilots got screwed 20+ years ago. His job is to negotiate seniority integration for all pilots and not just a select few. He is not about to give away seniority rights for senior pilots or create conflict with UAL pilots unecessarily by demanding super seniority for a bunch of prima donna former CALEX types. It aint gonna happen.
That is why former CALEX pilots are propping up J.P. and his union thugs. They are purposlely dragging out the contract negotiation process to stall SSL talks. In the meantime, J.P. and his junior varsity players are enjoying pay, perks and time off most senior pilots do not get. This is another way they are insidiously undermining seniority.
Make no mistake about it, J.P. will scurry away with some management job or promoted within ALPA. In the meantime, those who have been propping him up will be stapled to the bottom of a 12,000 pilot seniority list. Somebody has to be there. Who in the hell do you think it will be -- A 15 year UAL pilot? Dream On.
This senior pilot respects seniority and not demands of entitlement. UAL pilots respect seniority and not demands of entitlement. ALPA supports seniority. The AFL-CIO respects seniority. An abritrator respects seniority. The only player here not respecting seniority are a select few former CALEX types.
You know the old saying "You cut your nose off to spite your face?"
As a senior pilot opinion, Jay Pierce is doing a good job. He is creating anger
and distrust among ALL pilots. This will ensure that he and his thugs will be booted out and UAL will eventually run our union. Mature, seasoned, hard line ALPA union representatives who honor seniority will soon be running our union. CALEX will be where they belong. At the bottom of the pile.
You did these things to yourself. We tried to warn you but you think that you know everything. You just don't know what you don't know.
LOL.
This member fully supports ALPA and our seniority system. UAL pilots support ALPA and the seniority system. Where as, many former CALEX pilots do not support ALPA but support the small clique of their junior pilots who have seized our union. Many former CALEX pilots do not respect our seniority system and in fact attempt to undermine the rest of us at every opportunity.
Those who now control our union are supporting policies that undermine our seniority system. PBS is the principle violator. Our work rules do not respect seniority. Management is now cross training pilots to work either cockpit seat. This is probably the most aggregious threat to seniority and is a direct threat to junior pilots. Our union says and does nothing. In fact, J.P. and Dave Owens have helped do these things to us. Their punishment is being promoted to higher and higher union positions.
Former CALEX pilots have been causing trouble since coming to work here. Several were so arrogant and belligerent they were terminated during initial training. Today, they are causing incredible conflict problems within our cockpit. Since hiring CALEX pilots there have been more cockpit conflict since the infamous CAL Strike. Professional Standards has been forced to hire more case workers. They are so innundated with investigations that it takes them weeks sometimes months to finalize.
CAL union leaders are angering the UAL MEC by undermining the negotiation process.
The point being is that former CALEX pilots and those who have seized our union, are antagonistic and causing much trouble. This arrogance stems from ignorance and a sense of entitlement. They respect no one and prioritize their needs over the rest of us.
There is no hope for this group of pilots. They are immature, arrogant and extremely nasty bunch. Just read most of their posts. They have an innate hatred of anyone who dare oppose them. It's their way or no way.
Their immature rants will be short lived. As I said, the UAL Seniority Juggernaut is bearing down on them and it is only a matter of time former CALEX pilots will come to grips with reality.
This senior pilot has long tried to talk common sense with many of our junior pilots. When one on one, they can be reasoned with. It is only when they bunch together (I.E., chat rooms, etc) do they raise their ugly head.
In conclusion, the former CALEX pilot has no ally's. They have managed to anger all around them and in the process have isolated themselves into a relatively small group who refuse any outside thought. Most of our senior pilots cannot stand working with them. They have also managed to anger UAL MEC and their pilots. In real terms it's about 1,000 former CALEX pilots v about 11,000 ALPA strong. The most junior pilots of the bunch are CALEX and they actually think they are going to some how wrestle super seniorty. Merger Committee Chairman CA Jim Bruscia is a senior pilot with a chip on his shoulder. He thinks that his PEX pilots got screwed 20+ years ago. His job is to negotiate seniority integration for all pilots and not just a select few. He is not about to give away seniority rights for senior pilots or create conflict with UAL pilots unecessarily by demanding super seniority for a bunch of prima donna former CALEX types. It aint gonna happen.
That is why former CALEX pilots are propping up J.P. and his union thugs. They are purposlely dragging out the contract negotiation process to stall SSL talks. In the meantime, J.P. and his junior varsity players are enjoying pay, perks and time off most senior pilots do not get. This is another way they are insidiously undermining seniority.
Make no mistake about it, J.P. will scurry away with some management job or promoted within ALPA. In the meantime, those who have been propping him up will be stapled to the bottom of a 12,000 pilot seniority list. Somebody has to be there. Who in the hell do you think it will be -- A 15 year UAL pilot? Dream On.
This senior pilot respects seniority and not demands of entitlement. UAL pilots respect seniority and not demands of entitlement. ALPA supports seniority. The AFL-CIO respects seniority. An abritrator respects seniority. The only player here not respecting seniority are a select few former CALEX types.
You know the old saying "You cut your nose off to spite your face?"
As a senior pilot opinion, Jay Pierce is doing a good job. He is creating anger
and distrust among ALL pilots. This will ensure that he and his thugs will be booted out and UAL will eventually run our union. Mature, seasoned, hard line ALPA union representatives who honor seniority will soon be running our union. CALEX will be where they belong. At the bottom of the pile.
You did these things to yourself. We tried to warn you but you think that you know everything. You just don't know what you don't know.
LOL.
No, that's not how it works. It will be category and class, and throw in relative seniority + or - a couple current seniority percentages. Look at the closest merger to your size, DL/NW. Look at that REALLY close. That's the way it goes. Fence the 744s for UAL guys and 787s for CAL guys for 5 years and there you have it. Nailed it.
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