CAL MEC pulls out of joint CAL/UAL MEC Meetin
03-09-2012, 03:38 PM
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 68
Dear Fellow Pilots:
The United MEC and Continental MEC were scheduled for a joint meeting on March 19-20 in Houston. Due to the grievances filed this week by the United Pilots, there was concern from the Continental MEC that the joint meeting may have an impact on the resolution of those grievances.
03-09-2012, 05:31 PM
#13
(retired)
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
Posts: 422
From the "From the Chairman" section of the CAL MEC Update...
"....As you will read in the JNC update below, negotiations continued this week in Baltimore with the NMB in attendance. I am pleased that we are making significant progress in the Scheduling sections and that the momentum that seemed to start with the New Year has continued. I was asked by a reporter this week why I think that progress is being made now when negotiations seemed mired in the doldrums all of last year. The answer I gave is that last year, management was just not ready for a contract. I compared the process to restoring a classic car. Their focus was on SOC and PSS (the body work and paint) and not on operational issues. Now that the paint job and interior have received their make-over, it is time to pop the hood and give proper attention to the engine—Flight Operations. To put it another way, I hope that management recognizes that without a satisfied pilot group, all their work to date is nothing more than putting lipstick on what may become a very large pig...."
"....Some Continental pilots have asked me about a message that was put out to the UAL pilots earlier this week. In that message, UAL MEC Chairman Capt. Heppner discussed two grievances they filed regarding your participation in the United Continental Holdings, Inc. profit sharing plan for 2011. Let me say that the CAL MEC is focused on the JCBA. We are not interested in engaging in public squabbles from the past that should have been, and we were assured by UAL MEC leadership would be, resolved with the TPA extension. Nothing good comes from pilots fighting with pilots and I do not intend to engage in that kind of activity. Our focus is on doing what is right for the pilot group and on achieving a JCBA, not on rehashing issues that hinder rather than advance that objective.
I will take Capt. Heppner at his word that it is not his intent for these grievances to be about the Continental pilots. Still, it would be naïve to ignore the possibility that the consequences, intentional or not, might affect the CAL pilot group. As such, I want to assure you that we are taking the actions necessary to protect the interests of our pilots. We have tried to avoid this dispute and are saddened that we will now need to spend valuable resources (both people and money) on this type of activity. Our goal is as it always was — the JCBA..."
From the "JNC" update section of the CAL MEC Update...
"....JNC (CO-CHAIRMEN CAPTS. DAVE OWENS (CAL) (photo), PHIL OTIS (UAL))
This week, your JNC continued to meet in Baltimore for negotiations with management on the JCBA Scheduling sections (Sections 5, 20 and 22). For the first time, we were joined by two mediators from the National Mediation Board — our regular mediator and the senior mediator. As a result, the parties split into multiple subgroups and significant progress was made in several subject areas. Nonetheless, much work remains to be done next week (again in Baltimore) for the parties to reduce the open items to a manageable number. The week after next, the JNC will be attending their respective MEC meetings.
As always, please stay connected to the process by reading updates from the MEC and your local council representatives...."
"....As you will read in the JNC update below, negotiations continued this week in Baltimore with the NMB in attendance. I am pleased that we are making significant progress in the Scheduling sections and that the momentum that seemed to start with the New Year has continued. I was asked by a reporter this week why I think that progress is being made now when negotiations seemed mired in the doldrums all of last year. The answer I gave is that last year, management was just not ready for a contract. I compared the process to restoring a classic car. Their focus was on SOC and PSS (the body work and paint) and not on operational issues. Now that the paint job and interior have received their make-over, it is time to pop the hood and give proper attention to the engine—Flight Operations. To put it another way, I hope that management recognizes that without a satisfied pilot group, all their work to date is nothing more than putting lipstick on what may become a very large pig...."
"....Some Continental pilots have asked me about a message that was put out to the UAL pilots earlier this week. In that message, UAL MEC Chairman Capt. Heppner discussed two grievances they filed regarding your participation in the United Continental Holdings, Inc. profit sharing plan for 2011. Let me say that the CAL MEC is focused on the JCBA. We are not interested in engaging in public squabbles from the past that should have been, and we were assured by UAL MEC leadership would be, resolved with the TPA extension. Nothing good comes from pilots fighting with pilots and I do not intend to engage in that kind of activity. Our focus is on doing what is right for the pilot group and on achieving a JCBA, not on rehashing issues that hinder rather than advance that objective.
I will take Capt. Heppner at his word that it is not his intent for these grievances to be about the Continental pilots. Still, it would be naïve to ignore the possibility that the consequences, intentional or not, might affect the CAL pilot group. As such, I want to assure you that we are taking the actions necessary to protect the interests of our pilots. We have tried to avoid this dispute and are saddened that we will now need to spend valuable resources (both people and money) on this type of activity. Our goal is as it always was — the JCBA..."
From the "JNC" update section of the CAL MEC Update...
"....JNC (CO-CHAIRMEN CAPTS. DAVE OWENS (CAL) (photo), PHIL OTIS (UAL))
This week, your JNC continued to meet in Baltimore for negotiations with management on the JCBA Scheduling sections (Sections 5, 20 and 22). For the first time, we were joined by two mediators from the National Mediation Board — our regular mediator and the senior mediator. As a result, the parties split into multiple subgroups and significant progress was made in several subject areas. Nonetheless, much work remains to be done next week (again in Baltimore) for the parties to reduce the open items to a manageable number. The week after next, the JNC will be attending their respective MEC meetings.
As always, please stay connected to the process by reading updates from the MEC and your local council representatives...."
03-09-2012, 07:13 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
Saddened? You bet I am.
03-09-2012, 08:22 PM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 94
....plus 1.
03-09-2012, 10:08 PM
#16
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
From the "From the Chairman" section of the CAL MEC Update...
"....As you will read in the JNC update below, negotiations continued this week in Baltimore with the NMB in attendance. I am pleased that we are making significant progress in the Scheduling sections and that the momentum that seemed to start with the New Year has continued. I was asked by a reporter this week why I think that progress is being made now when negotiations seemed mired in the doldrums all of last year. The answer I gave is that last year, management was just not ready for a contract. I compared the process to restoring a classic car. Their focus was on SOC and PSS (the body work and paint) and not on operational issues. Now that the paint job and interior have received their make-over, it is time to pop the hood and give proper attention to the engine—Flight Operations. To put it another way, I hope that management recognizes that without a satisfied pilot group, all their work to date is nothing more than putting lipstick on what may become a very large pig...."
"....Some Continental pilots have asked me about a message that was put out to the UAL pilots earlier this week. In that message, UAL MEC Chairman Capt. Heppner discussed two grievances they filed regarding your participation in the United Continental Holdings, Inc. profit sharing plan for 2011. Let me say that the CAL MEC is focused on the JCBA. We are not interested in engaging in public squabbles from the past that should have been, and we were assured by UAL MEC leadership would be, resolved with the TPA extension. Nothing good comes from pilots fighting with pilots and I do not intend to engage in that kind of activity. Our focus is on doing what is right for the pilot group and on achieving a JCBA, not on rehashing issues that hinder rather than advance that objective.
I will take Capt. Heppner at his word that it is not his intent for these grievances to be about the Continental pilots. Still, it would be naïve to ignore the possibility that the consequences, intentional or not, might affect the CAL pilot group. As such, I want to assure you that we are taking the actions necessary to protect the interests of our pilots. We have tried to avoid this dispute and are saddened that we will now need to spend valuable resources (both people and money) on this type of activity. Our goal is as it always was — the JCBA..."
From the "JNC" update section of the CAL MEC Update...
"....JNC (CO-CHAIRMEN CAPTS. DAVE OWENS (CAL) (photo), PHIL OTIS (UAL))
This week, your JNC continued to meet in Baltimore for negotiations with management on the JCBA Scheduling sections (Sections 5, 20 and 22). For the first time, we were joined by two mediators from the National Mediation Board — our regular mediator and the senior mediator. As a result, the parties split into multiple subgroups and significant progress was made in several subject areas. Nonetheless, much work remains to be done next week (again in Baltimore) for the parties to reduce the open items to a manageable number. The week after next, the JNC will be attending their respective MEC meetings.
As always, please stay connected to the process by reading updates from the MEC and your local council representatives...."
"....As you will read in the JNC update below, negotiations continued this week in Baltimore with the NMB in attendance. I am pleased that we are making significant progress in the Scheduling sections and that the momentum that seemed to start with the New Year has continued. I was asked by a reporter this week why I think that progress is being made now when negotiations seemed mired in the doldrums all of last year. The answer I gave is that last year, management was just not ready for a contract. I compared the process to restoring a classic car. Their focus was on SOC and PSS (the body work and paint) and not on operational issues. Now that the paint job and interior have received their make-over, it is time to pop the hood and give proper attention to the engine—Flight Operations. To put it another way, I hope that management recognizes that without a satisfied pilot group, all their work to date is nothing more than putting lipstick on what may become a very large pig...."
"....Some Continental pilots have asked me about a message that was put out to the UAL pilots earlier this week. In that message, UAL MEC Chairman Capt. Heppner discussed two grievances they filed regarding your participation in the United Continental Holdings, Inc. profit sharing plan for 2011. Let me say that the CAL MEC is focused on the JCBA. We are not interested in engaging in public squabbles from the past that should have been, and we were assured by UAL MEC leadership would be, resolved with the TPA extension. Nothing good comes from pilots fighting with pilots and I do not intend to engage in that kind of activity. Our focus is on doing what is right for the pilot group and on achieving a JCBA, not on rehashing issues that hinder rather than advance that objective.
I will take Capt. Heppner at his word that it is not his intent for these grievances to be about the Continental pilots. Still, it would be naïve to ignore the possibility that the consequences, intentional or not, might affect the CAL pilot group. As such, I want to assure you that we are taking the actions necessary to protect the interests of our pilots. We have tried to avoid this dispute and are saddened that we will now need to spend valuable resources (both people and money) on this type of activity. Our goal is as it always was — the JCBA..."
From the "JNC" update section of the CAL MEC Update...
"....JNC (CO-CHAIRMEN CAPTS. DAVE OWENS (CAL) (photo), PHIL OTIS (UAL))
This week, your JNC continued to meet in Baltimore for negotiations with management on the JCBA Scheduling sections (Sections 5, 20 and 22). For the first time, we were joined by two mediators from the National Mediation Board — our regular mediator and the senior mediator. As a result, the parties split into multiple subgroups and significant progress was made in several subject areas. Nonetheless, much work remains to be done next week (again in Baltimore) for the parties to reduce the open items to a manageable number. The week after next, the JNC will be attending their respective MEC meetings.
As always, please stay connected to the process by reading updates from the MEC and your local council representatives...."
03-10-2012, 06:10 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: EWR B737FO
Posts: 225
You may not like what he says, but he's being honest with the CAL pilots about his intentions to protect our interest . Just as Jay H and your MEC decided to press ahead with the grievance They are protecting your interest as well (as it should be). Hopefully, this will get resolved soon and WE can focus on the real target, a JCBA. My biggest concern is not the comments from both MCs, because both have subliminal messages each group of there conerns and intention...but the longer we get caught up in the unon crap and negotiation delays..some self inflicted, the longer each and everyone us will suffer and lose money and QOL and the opportunity to get from under a BK and concessionary contracts NOW
03-10-2012, 06:45 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Expect the separate announcement about a solo contract soon. I believe it will run something like this:
"From the Chairman:
As so many of you have witness since the announcement of the merger of two of the airlines. Continental and United, our progress towards achieving a pilot contract has been slow and painful at best. When I was recently asked about the delays, lack of substantial progress and what may be the root cause of them I was reminded of restoration of a classic car. In an effort to maintain originality of the components of the car it is often necessary to spend major efforts to rebuild and restore these to factory specifications. However, often times the wear, tear and corrosion are just too great for restoration. Even after spending many hours of detailed effort to do so they must be discarded and replaced with newly manufactured parts and so it is with our contract negotiations.
I am sad to announce the necessity to allow the former United pilot group to negotiate on their own and attempt to achieve a contract which meets their individual needs. I am also pleased to announce we, the former Continental pilot group, have achieved a historical contract agreement with United Airlines..."
"From the Chairman:
As so many of you have witness since the announcement of the merger of two of the airlines. Continental and United, our progress towards achieving a pilot contract has been slow and painful at best. When I was recently asked about the delays, lack of substantial progress and what may be the root cause of them I was reminded of restoration of a classic car. In an effort to maintain originality of the components of the car it is often necessary to spend major efforts to rebuild and restore these to factory specifications. However, often times the wear, tear and corrosion are just too great for restoration. Even after spending many hours of detailed effort to do so they must be discarded and replaced with newly manufactured parts and so it is with our contract negotiations.
I am sad to announce the necessity to allow the former United pilot group to negotiate on their own and attempt to achieve a contract which meets their individual needs. I am also pleased to announce we, the former Continental pilot group, have achieved a historical contract agreement with United Airlines..."
Last edited by Regularguy; 03-10-2012 at 08:14 AM. Reason: wrong word
03-10-2012, 07:07 AM
#19
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
None of know the full story, but was told CAL pilot group was listed? Can anyone on UA side verify. If so, how can there not be a trust deficit between MECs given the UA MEC profit sharing uproar, and now a grievance which will list CAL MEC and pilot group. Why would CAL MEC play right now, if the UA MEC filed a grievance that legally can damage our group and JCBA progress? I'm sure the lawyers are at the table on both sides...providing expensive advice, on our dime
You may not like what he says, but he's being honest with the CAL pilots about his intentions to protect our interest . Just as Jay H and your MEC decided to press ahead with the grievance They are protecting your interest as well (as it should be). Hopefully, this will get resolved soon and WE can focus on the real target, a JCBA. My biggest concern is not the comments from both MCs, because both have subliminal messages each group of there conerns and intention...but the longer we get caught up in the unon crap and negotiation delays..some self inflicted, the longer each and everyone us will suffer and lose money and QOL and the opportunity to get from under a BK and concessionary contracts NOW
You may not like what he says, but he's being honest with the CAL pilots about his intentions to protect our interest . Just as Jay H and your MEC decided to press ahead with the grievance They are protecting your interest as well (as it should be). Hopefully, this will get resolved soon and WE can focus on the real target, a JCBA. My biggest concern is not the comments from both MCs, because both have subliminal messages each group of there conerns and intention...but the longer we get caught up in the unon crap and negotiation delays..some self inflicted, the longer each and everyone us will suffer and lose money and QOL and the opportunity to get from under a BK and concessionary contracts NOW
Read the tone of the different updates. Pearce's arrogance is ASTOUNDING. It's ok for him to wheel and deal behind the scenes just because negotiating WITH the UAL pilots might get more for the group as a whole, but slightly less for the CAL pilots individually. Now it so happens that selfish rogue act may have caused a violation of our contract, so we file a grievance and he acts like a spoiled 3 year old. I'm sure if you follow the history of these issues you see why this would tick us off.
I'm ALL for putting all this aside and getting on with the JCBA. Quit the side deals and lets focus! Trouble is, it's Pearce who keeps going rogue! That leaves Heppner NO CHOICE but to move IN RESPONSE to protect our contract. Trust me, if you reversed the actions of the Jays, you'd be having the same large cow I'm having right now. I'm appalled by his "update", frankly
03-10-2012, 08:26 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,901
Originally Posted by gettinbumped
That may have been a violation of the TPA, which directly took money out of the UAL pilots already secured, contractually guarenteed profit sharing.
As has been stated many times by many people, the CAL pilot group getting profit sharing did not change the amount of the UAL pilot group profit sharing PERIOD. Profit sharing was calculated as if every employee was getting it. The result was the number...it wasn't going to change. Now, if we didn't get it, the total value of that money for the CAL pilot group would have been returned to company coffers, not to the other employees. Us being excluded was not going to bump up your profit sharing amount (i.e the same total pool divided by fewer people). That's not how the profit sharing plan works. WE didn't harm your bottom line in regards to profit sharing and we didn't take a cent from you or any other work group, CAL or UAL.
Now, if you have concerns about the way it was calculated under a merged profit sharing scenario in the combined company that is a different issue that needs to be taken up with management. If you feel your share of the profits should have been bigger that is a separate issue and is not really related to a particular work group but rather all work groups.
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