CAL System Bid released
03-08-2012, 11:36 AM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 225
Not to mention the fact that CAL spent 3+ yrs devoted to developing, training, proving, and checking the crews for the RNAV/RNP approach criteria. Getting the .3 minimums was one thing (as SWA has now), then having the FAA sign-off on the .15 was a LONG time of paper/approval by the FAA.
Vacating the CAL Ops Cert would have null/voided the approval that CAL had received from the FAA in which to exercise those approaches/minimums. Going to the UA Ops Cert would have forced the Merged Flt Ops into having to repeat the entire certification process under L-UA's Ops Cert. With this being a big player in approaches that CAL trained for (as evidence of last years MV/LOE), it's something they were/are very serious in using from this point forward.
The FAA was playing the "No Waivers, No Favors" on that topic.
(Source: Capt E.C. B756 Flt Mgr.)
Vacating the CAL Ops Cert would have null/voided the approval that CAL had received from the FAA in which to exercise those approaches/minimums. Going to the UA Ops Cert would have forced the Merged Flt Ops into having to repeat the entire certification process under L-UA's Ops Cert. With this being a big player in approaches that CAL trained for (as evidence of last years MV/LOE), it's something they were/are very serious in using from this point forward.
The FAA was playing the "No Waivers, No Favors" on that topic.
(Source: Capt E.C. B756 Flt Mgr.)
03-08-2012, 12:06 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 332
My condolences on your inability to wrap your head around this. Allow me to give you another example of how an operating certificate can force training costs etc. to rise. UAL did not conduct monitored low visibility approaches. As all approaches at both CAL and UAL below CAT I minimums require an autoland, it made sense to adopt the UAL non-monitored approach for low visibility approaches(no need to transfer controls when the airplane was going to autoland anyway). The FAA said "whoa CAL, not that easy, you must train all pilots on the non-monitored low visibility approach procedure to comply and allow this to be conducted on your certificate". The result, all our pilots are either in the process(757/767/777 beginning Jan 1, 2012) or will be commencing training on non monitored low visibility approaches and this training will go well into 2013 before CAL crews can perform low visibility approaches the way UAL crews do.
Non-precision approaches will be trained at UAL as the equipment is brought up to CAL standards so that we can conduct RNAV/RNP approaches down to the minimums already fought hard for by CAL over the last decade(.12 737NG/.15 756/.11? 777). Using the UAL certificate, as mature as it was, would be more difficult to alter thus requiring many years of proving runs etc. for RNAV(RNP) and even certain ETOPS procedures native to CAL.
Source,
ME
03-08-2012, 12:36 PM
#103
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
03-08-2012, 01:00 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,898
Originally Posted by Andy
Section 25, Part 14, Para B:
Open time within BES will be assigned in the following order:
1. To a Lineholder who is on Company Business Available status.
2. To a Lineholder on RX duty status.
3. To a Lineholder on RA duty status.
4. To an available Reserve.
5. In seniority order to available Lineholders who have indicated that they desire
to be Junior Manned.
6. Junior assigned to a Lineholder in reverse order of seniority (Junior Manning). Junior Manning will be implemented for open Trip coverage only when priorities 1 through 5 have been exhausted, or within three (3) hours of scheduled departure time. A Lineholder who will be required to drop a Trip Pairing which would generate an additional Junior Manning requirement will be bypassed in the first attempt at coverage. Crew Scheduling, when notifying a pilot of such an assignment will clearly state that he is being Junior Manned. All assignments made under the provisions of this Paragraph will be fully documented by Crew Scheduling and forwarded to the System Chief Pilot within twenty-four (24) hours, with an information copy to the affected pilot, the Association, and his Base Chief Pilot within forty-eight (48) hours.
7. After the above steps have been exhausted, a pilot may be used in a lower Status.
1. To a Lineholder who is on Company Business Available status.
2. To a Lineholder on RX duty status.
3. To a Lineholder on RA duty status.
4. To an available Reserve.
5. In seniority order to available Lineholders who have indicated that they desire
to be Junior Manned.
6. Junior assigned to a Lineholder in reverse order of seniority (Junior Manning). Junior Manning will be implemented for open Trip coverage only when priorities 1 through 5 have been exhausted, or within three (3) hours of scheduled departure time. A Lineholder who will be required to drop a Trip Pairing which would generate an additional Junior Manning requirement will be bypassed in the first attempt at coverage. Crew Scheduling, when notifying a pilot of such an assignment will clearly state that he is being Junior Manned. All assignments made under the provisions of this Paragraph will be fully documented by Crew Scheduling and forwarded to the System Chief Pilot within twenty-four (24) hours, with an information copy to the affected pilot, the Association, and his Base Chief Pilot within forty-eight (48) hours.
7. After the above steps have been exhausted, a pilot may be used in a lower Status.
You asked about reserve. Under the L-CAL contract, we have MOVABLE and IMMOVABLE days when on reserve (generally 4 movable and 8 immovable if available the entire month). Your movable days can be "rolled" to later at the discretion of the company per operational necessity (which basically has no definition and means whenever they want to).
Essentially there are two different times to worry about under the L-CAL contract: 1500 and 1800. A reserve must check his schedule each day after 1500 to find out what the company is doing to you the next day (new call block, trip, etc.). A reserve is generally going to be released at 1800 on the day before a day off.
If you finish a trip prior to 1500, you must check your schedule to determine what they want you to do the next day. If you are going into MOVABLE days off and the company has not changed your schedule or rolled your days, you are automatically released to your next duty period (in this case your next set of reserve days). You do not have to recheck after 1500.
If you finish after 1500, check your schedule. If you finish after 1800, a reserve going into movable days off still has to check his schedule to make sure they haven't rolled your days or given you a trip. A reserve going into IMMOVABLE days off who finishes his trip after 1800 does not need to check his schedule.
Under your circumstances, if you are already in the middle of days off (day #2 of 4 you said above), you are not obligated to the company and they cannot touch you regardless of movable or immovable days. Technically there is not liability on your part to the company and they have no means of contacting you (i.e. a call block). DON'T ANSWER YOUR PHONE FROM SCHEDULING or at all. Screen your calls.
03-08-2012, 01:48 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 225
Do you really think the choice of Operating Certificates was due solely on the merit of approach mins. Ever wonder why the company gave you jelly beans instead of golden eggs. Hint : golden eggs cost more!
Choosing either certificate would generate training on one side or the other. Like I said "Best Practices" meaning cheaper to do the CAL cert than the UAL cert. nothing to do will quality. Sorry!
(Source: ME ).
03-08-2012, 03:13 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 737
Posts: 590
Contrail67, with all due respect to Andy, the part of the contract he referenced really has nothing to do with the question you asked.
You asked about reserve. Under the L-CAL contract, we have MOVABLE and IMMOVABLE days when on reserve (generally 4 movable and 8 immovable if available the entire month). Your movable days can be "rolled" to later at the discretion of the company per operational necessity (which basically has no definition and means whenever they want to).
Essentially there are two different times to worry about under the L-CAL contract: 1500 and 1800. A reserve must check his schedule each day after 1500 to find out what the company is doing to you the next day (new call block, trip, etc.). A reserve is generally going to be released at 1800 on the day before a day off.
If you finish a trip prior to 1500, you must check your schedule to determine what they want you to do the next day. If you are going into MOVABLE days off and the company has not changed your schedule or rolled your days, you are automatically released to your next duty period (in this case your next set of reserve days). You do not have to recheck after 1500.
If you finish after 1500, check your schedule. If you finish after 1800, a reserve going into movable days off still has to check his schedule to make sure they haven't rolled your days or given you a trip. A reserve going into IMMOVABLE days off who finishes his trip after 1800 does not need to check his schedule.
Under your circumstances, if you are already in the middle of days off (day #2 of 4 you said above), you are not obligated to the company and they cannot touch you regardless of movable or immovable days. Technically there is not liability on your part to the company and they have no means of contacting you (i.e. a call block). DON'T ANSWER YOUR PHONE FROM SCHEDULING or at all. Screen your calls.
You asked about reserve. Under the L-CAL contract, we have MOVABLE and IMMOVABLE days when on reserve (generally 4 movable and 8 immovable if available the entire month). Your movable days can be "rolled" to later at the discretion of the company per operational necessity (which basically has no definition and means whenever they want to).
Essentially there are two different times to worry about under the L-CAL contract: 1500 and 1800. A reserve must check his schedule each day after 1500 to find out what the company is doing to you the next day (new call block, trip, etc.). A reserve is generally going to be released at 1800 on the day before a day off.
If you finish a trip prior to 1500, you must check your schedule to determine what they want you to do the next day. If you are going into MOVABLE days off and the company has not changed your schedule or rolled your days, you are automatically released to your next duty period (in this case your next set of reserve days). You do not have to recheck after 1500.
If you finish after 1500, check your schedule. If you finish after 1800, a reserve going into movable days off still has to check his schedule to make sure they haven't rolled your days or given you a trip. A reserve going into IMMOVABLE days off who finishes his trip after 1800 does not need to check his schedule.
Under your circumstances, if you are already in the middle of days off (day #2 of 4 you said above), you are not obligated to the company and they cannot touch you regardless of movable or immovable days. Technically there is not liability on your part to the company and they have no means of contacting you (i.e. a call block). DON'T ANSWER YOUR PHONE FROM SCHEDULING or at all. Screen your calls.
03-08-2012, 03:28 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
Contrail67, with all due respect to Andy, the part of the contract he referenced really has nothing to do with the question you asked.
You asked about reserve. Under the L-CAL contract, we have MOVABLE and IMMOVABLE days when on reserve (generally 4 movable and 8 immovable if available the entire month). Your movable days can be "rolled" to later at the discretion of the company per operational necessity (which basically has no definition and means whenever they want to).
Essentially there are two different times to worry about under the L-CAL contract: 1500 and 1800. A reserve must check his schedule each day after 1500 to find out what the company is doing to you the next day (new call block, trip, etc.). A reserve is generally going to be released at 1800 on the day before a day off.
If you finish a trip prior to 1500, you must check your schedule to determine what they want you to do the next day. If you are going into MOVABLE days off and the company has not changed your schedule or rolled your days, you are automatically released to your next duty period (in this case your next set of reserve days). You do not have to recheck after 1500.
If you finish after 1500, check your schedule. If you finish after 1800, a reserve going into movable days off still has to check his schedule to make sure they haven't rolled your days or given you a trip. A reserve going into IMMOVABLE days off who finishes his trip after 1800 does not need to check his schedule.
Under your circumstances, if you are already in the middle of days off (day #2 of 4 you said above), you are not obligated to the company and they cannot touch you regardless of movable or immovable days. Technically there is not liability on your part to the company and they have no means of contacting you (i.e. a call block). DON'T ANSWER YOUR PHONE FROM SCHEDULING or at all. Screen your calls.
You asked about reserve. Under the L-CAL contract, we have MOVABLE and IMMOVABLE days when on reserve (generally 4 movable and 8 immovable if available the entire month). Your movable days can be "rolled" to later at the discretion of the company per operational necessity (which basically has no definition and means whenever they want to).
Essentially there are two different times to worry about under the L-CAL contract: 1500 and 1800. A reserve must check his schedule each day after 1500 to find out what the company is doing to you the next day (new call block, trip, etc.). A reserve is generally going to be released at 1800 on the day before a day off.
If you finish a trip prior to 1500, you must check your schedule to determine what they want you to do the next day. If you are going into MOVABLE days off and the company has not changed your schedule or rolled your days, you are automatically released to your next duty period (in this case your next set of reserve days). You do not have to recheck after 1500.
If you finish after 1500, check your schedule. If you finish after 1800, a reserve going into movable days off still has to check his schedule to make sure they haven't rolled your days or given you a trip. A reserve going into IMMOVABLE days off who finishes his trip after 1800 does not need to check his schedule.
Under your circumstances, if you are already in the middle of days off (day #2 of 4 you said above), you are not obligated to the company and they cannot touch you regardless of movable or immovable days. Technically there is not liability on your part to the company and they have no means of contacting you (i.e. a call block). DON'T ANSWER YOUR PHONE FROM SCHEDULING or at all. Screen your calls.
THANKS! Excellent post on reserve days.
With the 1500 and 1800 times, are they local domicile, IAH, or UTC?
SP
03-08-2012, 03:48 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 459
Local base time.
03-08-2012, 05:09 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
Contrail67, with all due respect to Andy, the part of the contract he referenced really has nothing to do with the question you asked.
Under your circumstances, if you are already in the middle of days off (day #2 of 4 you said above), you are not obligated to the company and they cannot touch you regardless of movable or immovable days. Technically there is not liability on your part to the company and they have no means of contacting you (i.e. a call block). DON'T ANSWER YOUR PHONE FROM SCHEDULING or at all. Screen your calls.
Under your circumstances, if you are already in the middle of days off (day #2 of 4 you said above), you are not obligated to the company and they cannot touch you regardless of movable or immovable days. Technically there is not liability on your part to the company and they have no means of contacting you (i.e. a call block). DON'T ANSWER YOUR PHONE FROM SCHEDULING or at all. Screen your calls.
One of the LUAL furloughees stated that he got called in the middle of his days off and answered the phone. He was told that he was obligated to take the assignment but told them that was unable to be in position in such a short timeframe. He had to speak to someone on the matter after the fact - the agreed upon workaround was to not answer the phone.
While not answering the phone is a solution, it shouldn't matter if you answer the phone and turn down an assignment while on days off.
Perhaps I have some details incorrect (likely, especially with second/third hand information) but it sounded like if they talk to you on your days off, you can be forced to accept an assignment.
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