LCAL Profit Sharing 2011 Possibility
12-22-2011, 05:35 PM
#101
SLI best wishes!
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: B767 Capt
Posts: 399
Most profitable U.S. airline for 2011
Maybe you should pay attention. This is the third time I've addressed this point, but I'll repeat it for you; profit sharing may not necessarily be a contractual item and as such, may not be a deviation from the status quo. If you have a response to this, make it already. But before you get your panties in a knot (too late apparently) understand that a great many CAL pilots (myself included, to an extent) agree with your conclusion that we should not be wasting any time or capital negotiating anything other than a JCBA. We certainly should not be making any deals regarding an "expedited" SLI as Wendy has proposed.
United Continental Projects Strong Finish to 2011
BUSINESS | DECEMBER 22, 2011, 7:43 P.M. ET
By JACK NICAS
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
United Continental Holdings Inc. is closing out a strong year with an upward tick in bookings.
The Chicago-based airline said domestic bookings for its mainline fleet for the next six weeks are up 3.7 percentage points compared to a year ago, while international bookings are flat.
The airline projected its unit revenue, or the amount taken in for each passenger flown a mile, to increase 8.5% to 9.5% for the fourth quarter of 2011.
United Continental became the world's largest airline by traffic last year when United Airlines and Continental Airlines merged. The carrier is projected to be the most profitable U.S. airline for 2011, earning nearly $1.3 billion, according to FactSet estimates.
Delta Air Lines Inc., the world's No. 2 airline by traffic, is forecast to earn more than $900 million this year, according to FactSet estimates. Last week, the Atlanta airline projected its unit revenue to increase 11% to 12% in the fourth quarter.
United Continental Projects Strong Finish to 2011 - WSJ.com
12-22-2011, 07:44 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 787 CA
Posts: 425
12-22-2011, 08:14 PM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 787 CA
Posts: 425
Excerpt from Message to UAL Council 11
December 2011
Fellow Pilots:
Last Wednesday and Thursday, December 14 and 15, the MEC held a special meeting in Chicago. The single item on the agenda was discussion of the Transition and Process Agreement. More specifically, Section 13A of the agreement, which deals with the protective provisions on behalf of the pilots.
The specific protections most important to the United pilots are:
Furlough Protection—the prohibition against furloughing any pilots as a result of the merger. CAL pilots have this protection in their CBA and it continues until one year after the Operational Merger Date (after we settle on an ISL)..
Ratio Protection—this is Paragraph 7B. It dictates that the relative levels of flying between the two airlines be kept within 90 percent of the relative premerger levels.
Domicile and Base Protection—this protection prevents the Company from closing any existing domicile or base. Additionally, Section 4D of the TPA says the Company will not open a new domicile nor add any new equipment to an existing domicile. The noted exceptions are a 787 EWR base and the 737 LAX base, both of which CAL had plans for prior to the merger.
The furlough, ratio, and domicile closing protections are items the CAL pilots have in their CBA that apply in the event of a merger. The new domicile/base protection (Section 4D) applies to both pilot groups and is just as valuable to the CAL pilots as it is to us.
Unfortunately, all four of these protections are subject to expiration on New Year’s Eve, either collectively or individually, for the United pilots. Only the New Domicile protection (4D) expires for the CAL pilots, as the others are protected in their CBA.
Now, the profit sharing issue—this item has generated many calls and questions and huge misconceptions. Section 8 of the TPA says: “Continental pilots will participate in the Continental Profit Sharing Plan adopted on February 17, 2010, in accordance with the terms of that Plan, for calendar year 2010.”
It says nothing more on the issue. Profit sharing is included in the United CBA. It has not been significant because in the past decade we’ve rarely been profitable, but now we are. A little more background on profit sharing—the money dedicated to profit sharing is already accrued on behalf of all employees of the two airlines combined. The only employees of both airlines not participating are the CAL pilots and about 50 employees in the CAL training center. The money is still accrued for them, but their agreements don’t provide for their participation, meaning their portion the profits will just go back to the Company if they don’t get their distributions. We want to make this clear. CAL pilot participation in profit sharing does not increase nor decrease United pilot profit sharing checks by one penny.
So, to summarize:
Furlough Protection
Ratio Protection UAL PILOTS MAY LOSE ON DEC. 31
Domicile Closing Protection
New Domicile Protection CAL and UAL PILOTS MAY LOSE ON DEC. 31
Profit Sharing for 2011 UAL PILOTS participate, CAL PILOTS do not
In light of this, the MEC passed the following resolution at the special MEC meeting last week:
BE IT RESOLVED that the UAL MEC directs the master chairman to use all means possible to execute the T&PA extension plan as presented at the December 14, 2011, special MEC meeting with the following modifications:
To define a “TA” as a tentative agreement accepted by both MECs.
To add a provision to pay United pilots at CAL hourly rates if a “TA” is not accepted by both MECs by March 1, 2012.
To add a provision that requires the Company to settle up all MEC merger-related expenses of both MECs within 60 days of submittal of completed invoices.
So this is the situation as it faces us. Since the end of the year is screaming down on us, discussions with the Company are occurring each day, and this may have changed by the time you read it. But our objectives are as follows:
We want the Company to extend the top three protections above for the United pilots to the same extent they are provided to the CAL pilots in their CBA. In other words, we would be protected equally until one year after the Operational Merger Date (after ISL). Additionally, the CAL pilots would participate in profit sharing just like we do, in accordance with the terms of their plan. For those who have called us and suggested that we should oppose CAL pilots participating, we have two words—get real! Nothing would be less unifying or more entertaining for the Company. And remember, if the CAL pilots don’t get it . . . Jeff Smisek does! Our basic position is: if the TPA is going to be modified, it must be modified on behalf of both groups, and attain protections for the United pilots and profit sharing for the CAL pilots.
So that leaves the new domicile protection. The Company obviously sees value in letting this expire. Too many of you to count have called us seeking verification to the rumors of new bases in IAH, DEN, ORD, etc. I have said repeatedly that while I’ve heard these rumors many times, I havenot heard them from anyone in a position to know. But it stands to reason that if the company wants the new domicile protection to expire they must have plans. Again, we’ve heard nothing official.
The most critical thing for you to remember is that new domiciles may be a threat, and they may not. New domiciles do not mean a transfer of assets! Asset transfer is prohibited under the TPA. Remember United pilots must still fly United planes and CAL pilots must fly CAL planes until we are fully integrated (ISL).
Fellow Pilots:
Last Wednesday and Thursday, December 14 and 15, the MEC held a special meeting in Chicago. The single item on the agenda was discussion of the Transition and Process Agreement. More specifically, Section 13A of the agreement, which deals with the protective provisions on behalf of the pilots.
The specific protections most important to the United pilots are:
Furlough Protection—the prohibition against furloughing any pilots as a result of the merger. CAL pilots have this protection in their CBA and it continues until one year after the Operational Merger Date (after we settle on an ISL)..
Ratio Protection—this is Paragraph 7B. It dictates that the relative levels of flying between the two airlines be kept within 90 percent of the relative premerger levels.
Domicile and Base Protection—this protection prevents the Company from closing any existing domicile or base. Additionally, Section 4D of the TPA says the Company will not open a new domicile nor add any new equipment to an existing domicile. The noted exceptions are a 787 EWR base and the 737 LAX base, both of which CAL had plans for prior to the merger.
The furlough, ratio, and domicile closing protections are items the CAL pilots have in their CBA that apply in the event of a merger. The new domicile/base protection (Section 4D) applies to both pilot groups and is just as valuable to the CAL pilots as it is to us.
Unfortunately, all four of these protections are subject to expiration on New Year’s Eve, either collectively or individually, for the United pilots. Only the New Domicile protection (4D) expires for the CAL pilots, as the others are protected in their CBA.
Now, the profit sharing issue—this item has generated many calls and questions and huge misconceptions. Section 8 of the TPA says: “Continental pilots will participate in the Continental Profit Sharing Plan adopted on February 17, 2010, in accordance with the terms of that Plan, for calendar year 2010.”
It says nothing more on the issue. Profit sharing is included in the United CBA. It has not been significant because in the past decade we’ve rarely been profitable, but now we are. A little more background on profit sharing—the money dedicated to profit sharing is already accrued on behalf of all employees of the two airlines combined. The only employees of both airlines not participating are the CAL pilots and about 50 employees in the CAL training center. The money is still accrued for them, but their agreements don’t provide for their participation, meaning their portion the profits will just go back to the Company if they don’t get their distributions. We want to make this clear. CAL pilot participation in profit sharing does not increase nor decrease United pilot profit sharing checks by one penny.
So, to summarize:
Furlough Protection
Ratio Protection UAL PILOTS MAY LOSE ON DEC. 31
Domicile Closing Protection
New Domicile Protection CAL and UAL PILOTS MAY LOSE ON DEC. 31
Profit Sharing for 2011 UAL PILOTS participate, CAL PILOTS do not
In light of this, the MEC passed the following resolution at the special MEC meeting last week:
BE IT RESOLVED that the UAL MEC directs the master chairman to use all means possible to execute the T&PA extension plan as presented at the December 14, 2011, special MEC meeting with the following modifications:
To define a “TA” as a tentative agreement accepted by both MECs.
To add a provision to pay United pilots at CAL hourly rates if a “TA” is not accepted by both MECs by March 1, 2012.
To add a provision that requires the Company to settle up all MEC merger-related expenses of both MECs within 60 days of submittal of completed invoices.
So this is the situation as it faces us. Since the end of the year is screaming down on us, discussions with the Company are occurring each day, and this may have changed by the time you read it. But our objectives are as follows:
We want the Company to extend the top three protections above for the United pilots to the same extent they are provided to the CAL pilots in their CBA. In other words, we would be protected equally until one year after the Operational Merger Date (after ISL). Additionally, the CAL pilots would participate in profit sharing just like we do, in accordance with the terms of their plan. For those who have called us and suggested that we should oppose CAL pilots participating, we have two words—get real! Nothing would be less unifying or more entertaining for the Company. And remember, if the CAL pilots don’t get it . . . Jeff Smisek does! Our basic position is: if the TPA is going to be modified, it must be modified on behalf of both groups, and attain protections for the United pilots and profit sharing for the CAL pilots.
So that leaves the new domicile protection. The Company obviously sees value in letting this expire. Too many of you to count have called us seeking verification to the rumors of new bases in IAH, DEN, ORD, etc. I have said repeatedly that while I’ve heard these rumors many times, I havenot heard them from anyone in a position to know. But it stands to reason that if the company wants the new domicile protection to expire they must have plans. Again, we’ve heard nothing official.
The most critical thing for you to remember is that new domiciles may be a threat, and they may not. New domiciles do not mean a transfer of assets! Asset transfer is prohibited under the TPA. Remember United pilots must still fly United planes and CAL pilots must fly CAL planes until we are fully integrated (ISL).
12-22-2011, 08:55 PM
#104
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: IAH 737 CA
Posts: 690
December 2011
Fellow Pilots:
Last Wednesday and Thursday, December 14 and 15, the MEC held a special meeting in Chicago. The single item on the agenda was discussion of the Transition and Process Agreement. More specifically, Section 13A of the agreement, which deals with the protective provisions on behalf of the pilots.
The specific protections most important to the United pilots are:
Furlough Protection—the prohibition against furloughing any pilots as a result of the merger. CAL pilots have this protection in their CBA and it continues until one year after the Operational Merger Date (after we settle on an ISL)..
Ratio Protection—this is Paragraph 7B. It dictates that the relative levels of flying between the two airlines be kept within 90 percent of the relative premerger levels.
Domicile and Base Protection—this protection prevents the Company from closing any existing domicile or base. Additionally, Section 4D of the TPA says the Company will not open a new domicile nor add any new equipment to an existing domicile. The noted exceptions are a 787 EWR base and the 737 LAX base, both of which CAL had plans for prior to the merger.
The furlough, ratio, and domicile closing protections are items the CAL pilots have in their CBA that apply in the event of a merger. The new domicile/base protection (Section 4D) applies to both pilot groups and is just as valuable to the CAL pilots as it is to us.
Unfortunately, all four of these protections are subject to expiration on New Year’s Eve, either collectively or individually, for the United pilots. Only the New Domicile protection (4D) expires for the CAL pilots, as the others are protected in their CBA.
Now, the profit sharing issue—this item has generated many calls and questions and huge misconceptions. Section 8 of the TPA says: “Continental pilots will participate in the Continental Profit Sharing Plan adopted on February 17, 2010, in accordance with the terms of that Plan, for calendar year 2010.”
It says nothing more on the issue. Profit sharing is included in the United CBA. It has not been significant because in the past decade we’ve rarely been profitable, but now we are. A little more background on profit sharing—the money dedicated to profit sharing is already accrued on behalf of all employees of the two airlines combined. The only employees of both airlines not participating are the CAL pilots and about 50 employees in the CAL training center. The money is still accrued for them, but their agreements don’t provide for their participation, meaning their portion the profits will just go back to the Company if they don’t get their distributions. We want to make this clear. CAL pilot participation in profit sharing does not increase nor decrease United pilot profit sharing checks by one penny.
So, to summarize:
Furlough Protection
Ratio Protection UAL PILOTS MAY LOSE ON DEC. 31
Domicile Closing Protection
New Domicile Protection CAL and UAL PILOTS MAY LOSE ON DEC. 31
Profit Sharing for 2011 UAL PILOTS participate, CAL PILOTS do not
In light of this, the MEC passed the following resolution at the special MEC meeting last week:
BE IT RESOLVED that the UAL MEC directs the master chairman to use all means possible to execute the T&PA extension plan as presented at the December 14, 2011, special MEC meeting with the following modifications:
To define a “TA” as a tentative agreement accepted by both MECs.
To add a provision to pay United pilots at CAL hourly rates if a “TA” is not accepted by both MECs by March 1, 2012.
To add a provision that requires the Company to settle up all MEC merger-related expenses of both MECs within 60 days of submittal of completed invoices.
So this is the situation as it faces us. Since the end of the year is screaming down on us, discussions with the Company are occurring each day, and this may have changed by the time you read it. But our objectives are as follows:
We want the Company to extend the top three protections above for the United pilots to the same extent they are provided to the CAL pilots in their CBA. In other words, we would be protected equally until one year after the Operational Merger Date (after ISL). Additionally, the CAL pilots would participate in profit sharing just like we do, in accordance with the terms of their plan. For those who have called us and suggested that we should oppose CAL pilots participating, we have two words—get real! Nothing would be less unifying or more entertaining for the Company. And remember, if the CAL pilots don’t get it . . . Jeff Smisek does! Our basic position is: if the TPA is going to be modified, it must be modified on behalf of both groups, and attain protections for the United pilots and profit sharing for the CAL pilots.
So that leaves the new domicile protection. The Company obviously sees value in letting this expire. Too many of you to count have called us seeking verification to the rumors of new bases in IAH, DEN, ORD, etc. I have said repeatedly that while I’ve heard these rumors many times, I havenot heard them from anyone in a position to know. But it stands to reason that if the company wants the new domicile protection to expire they must have plans. Again, we’ve heard nothing official.
The most critical thing for you to remember is that new domiciles may be a threat, and they may not. New domiciles do not mean a transfer of assets! Asset transfer is prohibited under the TPA. Remember United pilots must still fly United planes and CAL pilots must fly CAL planes until we are fully integrated (ISL).
Fellow Pilots:
Last Wednesday and Thursday, December 14 and 15, the MEC held a special meeting in Chicago. The single item on the agenda was discussion of the Transition and Process Agreement. More specifically, Section 13A of the agreement, which deals with the protective provisions on behalf of the pilots.
The specific protections most important to the United pilots are:
Furlough Protection—the prohibition against furloughing any pilots as a result of the merger. CAL pilots have this protection in their CBA and it continues until one year after the Operational Merger Date (after we settle on an ISL)..
Ratio Protection—this is Paragraph 7B. It dictates that the relative levels of flying between the two airlines be kept within 90 percent of the relative premerger levels.
Domicile and Base Protection—this protection prevents the Company from closing any existing domicile or base. Additionally, Section 4D of the TPA says the Company will not open a new domicile nor add any new equipment to an existing domicile. The noted exceptions are a 787 EWR base and the 737 LAX base, both of which CAL had plans for prior to the merger.
The furlough, ratio, and domicile closing protections are items the CAL pilots have in their CBA that apply in the event of a merger. The new domicile/base protection (Section 4D) applies to both pilot groups and is just as valuable to the CAL pilots as it is to us.
Unfortunately, all four of these protections are subject to expiration on New Year’s Eve, either collectively or individually, for the United pilots. Only the New Domicile protection (4D) expires for the CAL pilots, as the others are protected in their CBA.
Now, the profit sharing issue—this item has generated many calls and questions and huge misconceptions. Section 8 of the TPA says: “Continental pilots will participate in the Continental Profit Sharing Plan adopted on February 17, 2010, in accordance with the terms of that Plan, for calendar year 2010.”
It says nothing more on the issue. Profit sharing is included in the United CBA. It has not been significant because in the past decade we’ve rarely been profitable, but now we are. A little more background on profit sharing—the money dedicated to profit sharing is already accrued on behalf of all employees of the two airlines combined. The only employees of both airlines not participating are the CAL pilots and about 50 employees in the CAL training center. The money is still accrued for them, but their agreements don’t provide for their participation, meaning their portion the profits will just go back to the Company if they don’t get their distributions. We want to make this clear. CAL pilot participation in profit sharing does not increase nor decrease United pilot profit sharing checks by one penny.
So, to summarize:
Furlough Protection
Ratio Protection UAL PILOTS MAY LOSE ON DEC. 31
Domicile Closing Protection
New Domicile Protection CAL and UAL PILOTS MAY LOSE ON DEC. 31
Profit Sharing for 2011 UAL PILOTS participate, CAL PILOTS do not
In light of this, the MEC passed the following resolution at the special MEC meeting last week:
BE IT RESOLVED that the UAL MEC directs the master chairman to use all means possible to execute the T&PA extension plan as presented at the December 14, 2011, special MEC meeting with the following modifications:
To define a “TA” as a tentative agreement accepted by both MECs.
To add a provision to pay United pilots at CAL hourly rates if a “TA” is not accepted by both MECs by March 1, 2012.
To add a provision that requires the Company to settle up all MEC merger-related expenses of both MECs within 60 days of submittal of completed invoices.
So this is the situation as it faces us. Since the end of the year is screaming down on us, discussions with the Company are occurring each day, and this may have changed by the time you read it. But our objectives are as follows:
We want the Company to extend the top three protections above for the United pilots to the same extent they are provided to the CAL pilots in their CBA. In other words, we would be protected equally until one year after the Operational Merger Date (after ISL). Additionally, the CAL pilots would participate in profit sharing just like we do, in accordance with the terms of their plan. For those who have called us and suggested that we should oppose CAL pilots participating, we have two words—get real! Nothing would be less unifying or more entertaining for the Company. And remember, if the CAL pilots don’t get it . . . Jeff Smisek does! Our basic position is: if the TPA is going to be modified, it must be modified on behalf of both groups, and attain protections for the United pilots and profit sharing for the CAL pilots.
So that leaves the new domicile protection. The Company obviously sees value in letting this expire. Too many of you to count have called us seeking verification to the rumors of new bases in IAH, DEN, ORD, etc. I have said repeatedly that while I’ve heard these rumors many times, I havenot heard them from anyone in a position to know. But it stands to reason that if the company wants the new domicile protection to expire they must have plans. Again, we’ve heard nothing official.
The most critical thing for you to remember is that new domiciles may be a threat, and they may not. New domiciles do not mean a transfer of assets! Asset transfer is prohibited under the TPA. Remember United pilots must still fly United planes and CAL pilots must fly CAL planes until we are fully integrated (ISL).
I get it all and agree with it all except for the pay leveling. How does that deal with or equal any "protective provision" of the TP&A or a JCBA?
12-23-2011, 05:26 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,900
No. Profit sharing plans are not all the same. The UAL pilots have a higher contractual amount, as did previous plans the CAL pilots took part in. The plan that we're discussing is just the basic plan that all employee groups take part in. Which is my point; profit sharing may not necessarily be a contractual item and as such, may not be a deviation from the status quo. After the UAL MEC's announcement, I think it's kind of a moot point now...
I wasn't sure if the UAL pilots had a basic agreement to be included in the PS plan forever or if there were actual additional contractual amounts.
12-23-2011, 05:38 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,900
December 2011
Fellow Pilots:
Last Wednesday and Thursday, December 14 and 15, the MEC held a special meeting in Chicago. The single item on the agenda was discussion of the Transition and Process Agreement. More specifically, Section 13A of the agreement, which deals with the protective provisions on behalf of the pilots.
The specific protections most important to the United pilots are:
Furlough Protection—the prohibition against furloughing any pilots as a result of the merger. CAL pilots have this protection in their CBA and it continues until one year after the Operational Merger Date (after we settle on an ISL)..
Ratio Protection—this is Paragraph 7B. It dictates that the relative levels of flying between the two airlines be kept within 90 percent of the relative premerger levels.
Domicile and Base Protection—this protection prevents the Company from closing any existing domicile or base. Additionally, Section 4D of the TPA says the Company will not open a new domicile nor add any new equipment to an existing domicile. The noted exceptions are a 787 EWR base and the 737 LAX base, both of which CAL had plans for prior to the merger.
The furlough, ratio, and domicile closing protections are items the CAL pilots have in their CBA that apply in the event of a merger. The new domicile/base protection (Section 4D) applies to both pilot groups and is just as valuable to the CAL pilots as it is to us.
Unfortunately, all four of these protections are subject to expiration on New Year’s Eve, either collectively or individually, for the United pilots. Only the New Domicile protection (4D) expires for the CAL pilots, as the others are protected in their CBA.
Now, the profit sharing issue—this item has generated many calls and questions and huge misconceptions. Section 8 of the TPA says: “Continental pilots will participate in the Continental Profit Sharing Plan adopted on February 17, 2010, in accordance with the terms of that Plan, for calendar year 2010.”
It says nothing more on the issue. Profit sharing is included in the United CBA. It has not been significant because in the past decade we’ve rarely been profitable, but now we are. A little more background on profit sharing—the money dedicated to profit sharing is already accrued on behalf of all employees of the two airlines combined. The only employees of both airlines not participating are the CAL pilots and about 50 employees in the CAL training center. The money is still accrued for them, but their agreements don’t provide for their participation, meaning their portion the profits will just go back to the Company if they don’t get their distributions. We want to make this clear. CAL pilot participation in profit sharing does not increase nor decrease United pilot profit sharing checks by one penny.
So, to summarize:
Furlough Protection
Ratio Protection UAL PILOTS MAY LOSE ON DEC. 31
Domicile Closing Protection
New Domicile Protection CAL and UAL PILOTS MAY LOSE ON DEC. 31
Profit Sharing for 2011 UAL PILOTS participate, CAL PILOTS do not
In light of this, the MEC passed the following resolution at the special MEC meeting last week:
BE IT RESOLVED that the UAL MEC directs the master chairman to use all means possible to execute the T&PA extension plan as presented at the December 14, 2011, special MEC meeting with the following modifications:
To define a “TA” as a tentative agreement accepted by both MECs.
To add a provision to pay United pilots at CAL hourly rates if a “TA” is not accepted by both MECs by March 1, 2012.
To add a provision that requires the Company to settle up all MEC merger-related expenses of both MECs within 60 days of submittal of completed invoices.
So this is the situation as it faces us. Since the end of the year is screaming down on us, discussions with the Company are occurring each day, and this may have changed by the time you read it. But our objectives are as follows:
We want the Company to extend the top three protections above for the United pilots to the same extent they are provided to the CAL pilots in their CBA. In other words, we would be protected equally until one year after the Operational Merger Date (after ISL). Additionally, the CAL pilots would participate in profit sharing just like we do, in accordance with the terms of their plan. For those who have called us and suggested that we should oppose CAL pilots participating, we have two words—get real! Nothing would be less unifying or more entertaining for the Company. And remember, if the CAL pilots don’t get it . . . Jeff Smisek does! Our basic position is: if the TPA is going to be modified, it must be modified on behalf of both groups, and attain protections for the United pilots and profit sharing for the CAL pilots.
So that leaves the new domicile protection. The Company obviously sees value in letting this expire. Too many of you to count have called us seeking verification to the rumors of new bases in IAH, DEN, ORD, etc. I have said repeatedly that while I’ve heard these rumors many times, I havenot heard them from anyone in a position to know. But it stands to reason that if the company wants the new domicile protection to expire they must have plans. Again, we’ve heard nothing official.
The most critical thing for you to remember is that new domiciles may be a threat, and they may not. New domiciles do not mean a transfer of assets! Asset transfer is prohibited under the TPA. Remember United pilots must still fly United planes and CAL pilots must fly CAL planes until we are fully integrated (ISL).
Fellow Pilots:
Last Wednesday and Thursday, December 14 and 15, the MEC held a special meeting in Chicago. The single item on the agenda was discussion of the Transition and Process Agreement. More specifically, Section 13A of the agreement, which deals with the protective provisions on behalf of the pilots.
The specific protections most important to the United pilots are:
Furlough Protection—the prohibition against furloughing any pilots as a result of the merger. CAL pilots have this protection in their CBA and it continues until one year after the Operational Merger Date (after we settle on an ISL)..
Ratio Protection—this is Paragraph 7B. It dictates that the relative levels of flying between the two airlines be kept within 90 percent of the relative premerger levels.
Domicile and Base Protection—this protection prevents the Company from closing any existing domicile or base. Additionally, Section 4D of the TPA says the Company will not open a new domicile nor add any new equipment to an existing domicile. The noted exceptions are a 787 EWR base and the 737 LAX base, both of which CAL had plans for prior to the merger.
The furlough, ratio, and domicile closing protections are items the CAL pilots have in their CBA that apply in the event of a merger. The new domicile/base protection (Section 4D) applies to both pilot groups and is just as valuable to the CAL pilots as it is to us.
Unfortunately, all four of these protections are subject to expiration on New Year’s Eve, either collectively or individually, for the United pilots. Only the New Domicile protection (4D) expires for the CAL pilots, as the others are protected in their CBA.
Now, the profit sharing issue—this item has generated many calls and questions and huge misconceptions. Section 8 of the TPA says: “Continental pilots will participate in the Continental Profit Sharing Plan adopted on February 17, 2010, in accordance with the terms of that Plan, for calendar year 2010.”
It says nothing more on the issue. Profit sharing is included in the United CBA. It has not been significant because in the past decade we’ve rarely been profitable, but now we are. A little more background on profit sharing—the money dedicated to profit sharing is already accrued on behalf of all employees of the two airlines combined. The only employees of both airlines not participating are the CAL pilots and about 50 employees in the CAL training center. The money is still accrued for them, but their agreements don’t provide for their participation, meaning their portion the profits will just go back to the Company if they don’t get their distributions. We want to make this clear. CAL pilot participation in profit sharing does not increase nor decrease United pilot profit sharing checks by one penny.
So, to summarize:
Furlough Protection
Ratio Protection UAL PILOTS MAY LOSE ON DEC. 31
Domicile Closing Protection
New Domicile Protection CAL and UAL PILOTS MAY LOSE ON DEC. 31
Profit Sharing for 2011 UAL PILOTS participate, CAL PILOTS do not
In light of this, the MEC passed the following resolution at the special MEC meeting last week:
BE IT RESOLVED that the UAL MEC directs the master chairman to use all means possible to execute the T&PA extension plan as presented at the December 14, 2011, special MEC meeting with the following modifications:
To define a “TA” as a tentative agreement accepted by both MECs.
To add a provision to pay United pilots at CAL hourly rates if a “TA” is not accepted by both MECs by March 1, 2012.
To add a provision that requires the Company to settle up all MEC merger-related expenses of both MECs within 60 days of submittal of completed invoices.
So this is the situation as it faces us. Since the end of the year is screaming down on us, discussions with the Company are occurring each day, and this may have changed by the time you read it. But our objectives are as follows:
We want the Company to extend the top three protections above for the United pilots to the same extent they are provided to the CAL pilots in their CBA. In other words, we would be protected equally until one year after the Operational Merger Date (after ISL). Additionally, the CAL pilots would participate in profit sharing just like we do, in accordance with the terms of their plan. For those who have called us and suggested that we should oppose CAL pilots participating, we have two words—get real! Nothing would be less unifying or more entertaining for the Company. And remember, if the CAL pilots don’t get it . . . Jeff Smisek does! Our basic position is: if the TPA is going to be modified, it must be modified on behalf of both groups, and attain protections for the United pilots and profit sharing for the CAL pilots.
So that leaves the new domicile protection. The Company obviously sees value in letting this expire. Too many of you to count have called us seeking verification to the rumors of new bases in IAH, DEN, ORD, etc. I have said repeatedly that while I’ve heard these rumors many times, I havenot heard them from anyone in a position to know. But it stands to reason that if the company wants the new domicile protection to expire they must have plans. Again, we’ve heard nothing official.
The most critical thing for you to remember is that new domiciles may be a threat, and they may not. New domiciles do not mean a transfer of assets! Asset transfer is prohibited under the TPA. Remember United pilots must still fly United planes and CAL pilots must fly CAL planes until we are fully integrated (ISL).
12-23-2011, 06:06 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
13n144e:
You don't get it at all and you even posted the facts from the MEC letter, the LCAL profit sharing is DEAD (as well as the TPA sunset clauses) and there is no provision for you to receive it by the letter of your agreement.
Why do you keep trying to say, "profit sharing may not necessarily be a contractual item and as such, may not be a deviation from the status quo." It makes no more sense than to say, "Jeff will extend thee TPA agreement because he had a ghost from the Christmas Future show him the light."
This is a big corporation and the letter of the law controls, it is not a "guide line."
So if you want PS then it has to be negotiated and if LUAL wants a TPA extension it has to be negotiated!
Oh and how about this? Rather than spending the efforts of negotiating extensions, PS, or one time pay raises, why doesn't the MECs and UAL spend their time negotiating a CONTRACT! This is the whole heart of the MECs position you posted, not if you (LCAL) get this we (LUAL) should get that.
Hate to rock your boat so far out in the Pacific but our Christmas future includes both the pilot groups coming together under one contract. Personally I think the MEC did a good job of making our collective New Year look a bit better. Only time will tell if you, I and about 10,000+ other pilots will get a pay raise in the New Year rather than a PS and TPA.
You don't get it at all and you even posted the facts from the MEC letter, the LCAL profit sharing is DEAD (as well as the TPA sunset clauses) and there is no provision for you to receive it by the letter of your agreement.
Why do you keep trying to say, "profit sharing may not necessarily be a contractual item and as such, may not be a deviation from the status quo." It makes no more sense than to say, "Jeff will extend thee TPA agreement because he had a ghost from the Christmas Future show him the light."
This is a big corporation and the letter of the law controls, it is not a "guide line."
So if you want PS then it has to be negotiated and if LUAL wants a TPA extension it has to be negotiated!
Oh and how about this? Rather than spending the efforts of negotiating extensions, PS, or one time pay raises, why doesn't the MECs and UAL spend their time negotiating a CONTRACT! This is the whole heart of the MECs position you posted, not if you (LCAL) get this we (LUAL) should get that.
Hate to rock your boat so far out in the Pacific but our Christmas future includes both the pilot groups coming together under one contract. Personally I think the MEC did a good job of making our collective New Year look a bit better. Only time will tell if you, I and about 10,000+ other pilots will get a pay raise in the New Year rather than a PS and TPA.
12-23-2011, 06:15 AM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
EWRflry:
Here is the UAL MEC update on the issue:
Message From the Master Chairman, Captain Wendy Morse
As reported on Saturday, I called a Special MEC Meeting last week to discuss the termination provisions of the Transition and Process Agreement (T&PA). As a reminder, the T&PA does not end until after we get a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA). There are provisions, however, that may be terminated by the company after December 31. We are all aware of the concerns about these provisions and potential inequities, which made it necessary to bring the MEC together last week to discuss a solution. I further conveyed that I would report to you more fully about the Special Meeting once the CAL-MEC had had an opportunity to conduct a conference call and after we had the chance to meet with the Company.
As many of you are already aware, CAL-MEC Chairman Captain Jay Pierce recently spoke to his pilots about the Continental pilot group receiving profit sharing for 2011. This is currently not part of their contract but is part of ours, negotiated as a small token of our concessions during United’s bankruptcy. As fellow pilots, we support our counterparts at CAL receiving additional compensation and believe that our pilot group should receive compensation beyond that required by our CBA as well. As your Master Chairman, I firmly believe that any extra-contractual dollars received by the CAL pilot group should also be received by the UAL pilot group.
The goal remains us achieving a JCBA while using the T&PA as a bridge. Next Saturday, December 31, will mark the two year anniversary of our contract's amendable date. The tenets coming out of last week’s Special MEC Meeting were to extend the termination provisions of the T&PA, to provide compensation considerations to our pilot groups and to incentivize a JCBA. One of the things the company would like is a shortened seniority list integration (SLI) process. There is room for a shortened process without compromising the integrity of the SLI process and providing resolution in a more timely manner following ratification of a JCBA. One hundred days of the 190-day SLI process is dedicated to negotiations and, with most of the SLI, likely to be resolved in mediation and/or arbitration. By agreeing to extend the termination provisions of the T&PA, and by allowing the company to get to a shortened seniority list integration process if we get to a JCBA by a date certain, both the pilot group and the company have skin in the game to incentivize the reaching of a JCBA. The result would be mutually beneficial to both parties with a contract and ISL sooner. This is what came out of the Special MEC Meeting. Following a tentative agreement (TA) on the JCBA, it would remain up to the two pilot groups to decide upon ratification.
I am also aware of the status quo implications of providing one pilot group remuneration and not the other and of our representational responsibilities to you, our members. In the two weeks remaining in my tenure as your Master Chairman, I will continue my fight for you, the pilots of United, to provide the extension of the partial termination provisions and an equal share of any extra-contractual money for you. I will advise and recommend to the UAL-MEC that they accept nothing less.
Let me repeat this item from the update:
"The tenets coming out of last week’s Special MEC Meeting were to extend the termination provisions of the T&PA, to provide compensation considerations to our pilot groups and to incentivize a JCBA. One of the things the company would like is a shortened seniority list integration (SLI) process. "
This is the heart of the whole issue at the UAL MEC table.
Here is the UAL MEC update on the issue:
Message From the Master Chairman, Captain Wendy Morse
As reported on Saturday, I called a Special MEC Meeting last week to discuss the termination provisions of the Transition and Process Agreement (T&PA). As a reminder, the T&PA does not end until after we get a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA). There are provisions, however, that may be terminated by the company after December 31. We are all aware of the concerns about these provisions and potential inequities, which made it necessary to bring the MEC together last week to discuss a solution. I further conveyed that I would report to you more fully about the Special Meeting once the CAL-MEC had had an opportunity to conduct a conference call and after we had the chance to meet with the Company.
As many of you are already aware, CAL-MEC Chairman Captain Jay Pierce recently spoke to his pilots about the Continental pilot group receiving profit sharing for 2011. This is currently not part of their contract but is part of ours, negotiated as a small token of our concessions during United’s bankruptcy. As fellow pilots, we support our counterparts at CAL receiving additional compensation and believe that our pilot group should receive compensation beyond that required by our CBA as well. As your Master Chairman, I firmly believe that any extra-contractual dollars received by the CAL pilot group should also be received by the UAL pilot group.
The goal remains us achieving a JCBA while using the T&PA as a bridge. Next Saturday, December 31, will mark the two year anniversary of our contract's amendable date. The tenets coming out of last week’s Special MEC Meeting were to extend the termination provisions of the T&PA, to provide compensation considerations to our pilot groups and to incentivize a JCBA. One of the things the company would like is a shortened seniority list integration (SLI) process. There is room for a shortened process without compromising the integrity of the SLI process and providing resolution in a more timely manner following ratification of a JCBA. One hundred days of the 190-day SLI process is dedicated to negotiations and, with most of the SLI, likely to be resolved in mediation and/or arbitration. By agreeing to extend the termination provisions of the T&PA, and by allowing the company to get to a shortened seniority list integration process if we get to a JCBA by a date certain, both the pilot group and the company have skin in the game to incentivize the reaching of a JCBA. The result would be mutually beneficial to both parties with a contract and ISL sooner. This is what came out of the Special MEC Meeting. Following a tentative agreement (TA) on the JCBA, it would remain up to the two pilot groups to decide upon ratification.
I am also aware of the status quo implications of providing one pilot group remuneration and not the other and of our representational responsibilities to you, our members. In the two weeks remaining in my tenure as your Master Chairman, I will continue my fight for you, the pilots of United, to provide the extension of the partial termination provisions and an equal share of any extra-contractual money for you. I will advise and recommend to the UAL-MEC that they accept nothing less.
Let me repeat this item from the update:
"The tenets coming out of last week’s Special MEC Meeting were to extend the termination provisions of the T&PA, to provide compensation considerations to our pilot groups and to incentivize a JCBA. One of the things the company would like is a shortened seniority list integration (SLI) process. "
This is the heart of the whole issue at the UAL MEC table.
12-23-2011, 06:56 AM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
EWRflry:
Here is the UAL MEC update on the issue:
Message From the Master Chairman, Captain Wendy Morse
As reported on Saturday, I called a Special MEC Meeting last week to discuss the termination provisions of the Transition and Process Agreement (T&PA). As a reminder, the T&PA does not end until after we get a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA). There are provisions, however, that may be terminated by the company after December 31. We are all aware of the concerns about these provisions and potential inequities, which made it necessary to bring the MEC together last week to discuss a solution. I further conveyed that I would report to you more fully about the Special Meeting once the CAL-MEC had had an opportunity to conduct a conference call and after we had the chance to meet with the Company.
As many of you are already aware, CAL-MEC Chairman Captain Jay Pierce recently spoke to his pilots about the Continental pilot group receiving profit sharing for 2011. This is currently not part of their contract but is part of ours, negotiated as a small token of our concessions during United’s bankruptcy. As fellow pilots, we support our counterparts at CAL receiving additional compensation and believe that our pilot group should receive compensation beyond that required by our CBA as well. As your Master Chairman, I firmly believe that any extra-contractual dollars received by the CAL pilot group should also be received by the UAL pilot group. The goal remains us achieving a JCBA while using the T&PA as a bridge. Next Saturday, December 31, will mark the two year anniversary of our contract's amendable date. The tenets coming out of last week’s Special MEC Meeting were to extend the termination provisions of the T&PA, to provide compensation considerations to our pilot groups and to incentivize a JCBA. One of the things the company would like is a shortened seniority list integration (SLI) process. There is room for a shortened process without compromising the integrity of the SLI process and providing resolution in a more timely manner following ratification of a JCBA. One hundred days of the 190-day SLI process is dedicated to negotiations and, with most of the SLI, likely to be resolved in mediation and/or arbitration. By agreeing to extend the termination provisions of the T&PA, and by allowing the company to get to a shortened seniority list integration process if we get to a JCBA by a date certain, both the pilot group and the company have skin in the game to incentivize the reaching of a JCBA. The result would be mutually beneficial to both parties with a contract and ISL sooner. This is what came out of the Special MEC Meeting. Following a tentative agreement (TA) on the JCBA, it would remain up to the two pilot groups to decide upon ratification.
I am also aware of the status quo implications of providing one pilot group remuneration and not the other and of our representational responsibilities to you, our members. In the two weeks remaining in my tenure as your Master Chairman, I will continue my fight for you, the pilots of United, to provide the extension of the partial termination provisions and an equal share of any extra-contractual money for you. I will advise and recommend to the UAL-MEC that they accept nothing less.
Let me repeat this item from the update:
"The tenets coming out of last week’s Special MEC Meeting were to extend the termination provisions of the T&PA, to provide compensation considerations to our pilot groups and to incentivize a JCBA. One of the things the company would like is a shortened seniority list integration (SLI) process. "
This is the heart of the whole issue at the UAL MEC table.
Here is the UAL MEC update on the issue:
Message From the Master Chairman, Captain Wendy Morse
As reported on Saturday, I called a Special MEC Meeting last week to discuss the termination provisions of the Transition and Process Agreement (T&PA). As a reminder, the T&PA does not end until after we get a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA). There are provisions, however, that may be terminated by the company after December 31. We are all aware of the concerns about these provisions and potential inequities, which made it necessary to bring the MEC together last week to discuss a solution. I further conveyed that I would report to you more fully about the Special Meeting once the CAL-MEC had had an opportunity to conduct a conference call and after we had the chance to meet with the Company.
As many of you are already aware, CAL-MEC Chairman Captain Jay Pierce recently spoke to his pilots about the Continental pilot group receiving profit sharing for 2011. This is currently not part of their contract but is part of ours, negotiated as a small token of our concessions during United’s bankruptcy. As fellow pilots, we support our counterparts at CAL receiving additional compensation and believe that our pilot group should receive compensation beyond that required by our CBA as well. As your Master Chairman, I firmly believe that any extra-contractual dollars received by the CAL pilot group should also be received by the UAL pilot group. The goal remains us achieving a JCBA while using the T&PA as a bridge. Next Saturday, December 31, will mark the two year anniversary of our contract's amendable date. The tenets coming out of last week’s Special MEC Meeting were to extend the termination provisions of the T&PA, to provide compensation considerations to our pilot groups and to incentivize a JCBA. One of the things the company would like is a shortened seniority list integration (SLI) process. There is room for a shortened process without compromising the integrity of the SLI process and providing resolution in a more timely manner following ratification of a JCBA. One hundred days of the 190-day SLI process is dedicated to negotiations and, with most of the SLI, likely to be resolved in mediation and/or arbitration. By agreeing to extend the termination provisions of the T&PA, and by allowing the company to get to a shortened seniority list integration process if we get to a JCBA by a date certain, both the pilot group and the company have skin in the game to incentivize the reaching of a JCBA. The result would be mutually beneficial to both parties with a contract and ISL sooner. This is what came out of the Special MEC Meeting. Following a tentative agreement (TA) on the JCBA, it would remain up to the two pilot groups to decide upon ratification.
I am also aware of the status quo implications of providing one pilot group remuneration and not the other and of our representational responsibilities to you, our members. In the two weeks remaining in my tenure as your Master Chairman, I will continue my fight for you, the pilots of United, to provide the extension of the partial termination provisions and an equal share of any extra-contractual money for you. I will advise and recommend to the UAL-MEC that they accept nothing less.
Let me repeat this item from the update:
"The tenets coming out of last week’s Special MEC Meeting were to extend the termination provisions of the T&PA, to provide compensation considerations to our pilot groups and to incentivize a JCBA. One of the things the company would like is a shortened seniority list integration (SLI) process. "
This is the heart of the whole issue at the UAL MEC table.
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