Thunder1

Does anyone have a best guess on when United will have a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement? I know it is anyone's guess; but, I'd like to hear from current UCAL pilots on their best guesses. Are we talking another 2-3 years or is it within 6-9 months.
And let's be realistic about the possibility of the Federal NMB mediator releasing the pilots for self help -- not going to happen in an election year. Obama can't afford to have the nations largest airline on strike during his re-election. Every day that goes by is lost money. Hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.

SoCalGuy

I'll bite....
March 24th, 2014....You heard it here first.

You mean kinda like the XL Pipeline construction/plan??.....Without treading on the APC TOS, that's all I'll say about that.

Spicy McHaggis

I've been saying mid-late 2013 for two years now. So far I've been right..

I'll add that when it comes, it will be mediocre and it will pass at 53/47 with 86% voting.

gettinbumped

I don't know, but my retro check is getting bigger by the day. Any "signing bonus" crap over FULL retro is going to get a NO vote from me

HSLD

Full retro is a must, but everyday that goes by, the company is going to say they don't have the cash to provide a lump sum and will try to weasel out. They've painted themselves into a corner with retro, after all, a billion dollar lump sum payout is going to be hard to sell to shareholders and you can be sure they'll use every excuse not to pay.

That said, no way they should let off the hook, that's money they owe the pilots. When the contract became amendable, I don't think anyone considered giving these guys a free loan or worse, forgiving that debt.

In a recent conversation, the idea of amortizing retro came up that's interesting.

************************************************** *

Assumptions:

As an example, let's say pay increased by 20% in your fleet and seat. On the UAL side, amendable date was April 2009 and at as of today it's hard to imagine a ratified agreement before April 2012. So for easy math 36 months of retro. Also for easy math below I'm using guarantee of 75 hours, but obviously actual pay records for monthly credit would be used.

(Current Rate x 1.2) - Current Rate = Hourly Raise

(Hourly Raise x 75hr guarantee) x 36 Months = Retroactive pay

Let's say the contract was amendable in 48 months, then:

Retroactive pay/48 months = Monthly Retro Pay in the new contract addition to new pay rates.

Potential Benefits:

• The company would have a difficult argument trying to reduce of eliminate full retro as it avoids a lump sum payout.
• Could potentially reduce the tax burden to a pilot of a (single year) lump sum payout.
• Forces the company to pay benefits (B/C plan) on retro which it may try to avoid with a lump sum payout/signing bonus.

************************************************** *

This model is thrown out for the sake of discussion only, I realize that this is a horrible model for a pilot reaching 65 before the amendable date of the next contract. (in that case maybe a lump sum of the balance at retirement?).


Anyway, for the sake of discussion - discuss!











March 24th sounds about right (not sure what year)

flybynuts

I'm am going to throw out Spring 2012. SOC by this month will really show the direction were heading. Most say the company wasn't motivated to pay us more until SOC complete. Mgmt is already posturing more aggressively i.e. trying to make the other employee groups hate us and etc... They are turning up the heat because they know they need us to sign a contract sooner than later.

I just worry that American's negotiations may hurt us if they fail.

Duckdude

Does anyone have any historical data on retro pay? Is getting full retro pay something that happens very often? The only new contract I've ever worked under was at Trans States in 2000, and we certainly didn't get full retro, although the RJ pilots got some, if my memory serves me correctly.

jsled

All good, HSLD, but UAL ALPA's ammendable date was Jan 01, 2010. It was extended from April 09 when the company came back for a second bite at the apple in 2005. UAL has 8B in cash, and in their TA with the mechanincs are proposing a 11.5K signing bonus for each mechanic and up to 75K for early out incentives. Cash is not their problem. Costs are. They would be smart to try and "buy" a 51% vote with a huge lump sum payout.

sled

Regularguy

Duckdude asked:

"Is getting full retro pay something that happens very often? "

At UAL (at least for the 33+ years I've been here) the pilots have only gotten "retro" pay once and it wasn't full.

So for all you types who want a 40% raise and "full" retro pay I guess what you really want is to strike and make management pay for "their" greed. Because full retro pay is a dream which historically has never happened.

My personal observation, having walked the picket line, is that talking tuff and strutting one's stuff before a strike is awful easy to do.

SoCalGuy

How does that 'ol saying go????

"Close enough for Gov. work"....or is it "Close enough for UCH Mgt"???

Either way, they've proven synonymous under Jeff's leadership (LACK there of....).

F-UPM Jeff.....We're not going away.