FACSofLife

With the beginning of "silly season" UPA is possibly going to make a push to boot ALPA to the curb. Seems the membership is tired of both sides of the politics and getting a JCBA anytime soon is not going to happen.

Anyone else heard the same?

oldmako

One need only look at USAPA and APA to see just how quickly in house pilot clubs win lucrative contracts for their members.

Carl Spackler

That's sure the standard ALPA talking point. Just make sure your don't talk about those horrible contracts at in-house unions like UPS and SWA.

Carl

jaykris

Take a look at this.......it will make you want a UPA!
Union Facts: Air Line Pilots Leaders, Employees, and Salaries

J

Old UCAL CA

While 11,000 or so combined pilots is certainly above a minimum funding threshold for independence and...independence makes a more common-sense argument when it comes to scope issues, it will not eliminate politics from a inherently corrupt, self-serving political exercise (organized labor), nor will it speed up negotiations.

On the contrary, it will extend them interminably because of the requirement to elect and spool up a new representative to include administration, elections, committee appointments and preparation. If you are a young man, you will be an old man before a TA is reached if your organization is changed out in the middle of a section six.

Mr. Mako makes an excellent point. Please note it before freezing negotiations to resume at some distant, as-yet-to-be-determined future date.

Also, please note, the pilot groups are not combined yet. That means, make sure you understand the demographics before embarking down a path that may not let you easily backtrack if it gets tough.

I have experience as a pilot in an independent organization. It will not help you in negotiations. However, it will make you feel warm and fuzzy because it's your very own.

Choose carefully.

Good luck.

757Driver

That link is anti-Union period. Might want to read up on the entire website before posting it on here in support of an Independent.

oldmako

Well Carl,

It's the standard talking point because it's 100% legitimate. Sure SWA and UPS kick major a$$, but there have been plenty of other "in house" pilot clubs that just sucked a$$. Make sure that you factor them into your comparison. How long has APA been without a contract? And USAPA?

I happen to be close friends with a union officer at USAPA. From what I hear from him, the type of political tripe we all love to complain about (within ALPA) is alive and well at USAPA. So, the panacea of a "new" union being free of this crap is just naive. Changing horses at this point in would extend our contract talks exponentially and would give Jeff a woodie.

Before you toss that baby out with the bath water, talk to someone who REALLY needed representation or medical help. Ask them what they think about ALPA now.

Flame all you want, but I'd rather put the onus on fixing the problems within ALPA than starting from scratch.

JoeMerchant

USAPA and APA are held out as examples of independent unions that don't deliver.

UPS and SWAPA are held out as example of independent unions that do deliver.

Anyone see the connection? It isn't the union, but the profitability of the company....Who the union is, isn't nearly as important as how much your company makes or loses...

Carl Spackler

Good luck with that. Ask TWA pilots or ALPA's own in-house union how receptive ALPA is to change.

Maybe you could draft a nice resolution or something.

Carl

cal73

Now is not a good time for this. Let's stay focused.