CAL/UAL MEC Chairman Roadshow
08-14-2011, 12:04 PM
#11
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
The mentor relationship is a major part of achieving unity in a union negotiating effort so this is boilerplate stuff. The young pup FO is greatly influenced by their early CAs. Later, when they become CAs, they still look to those now much more senior CAs for guidance and example. The union would like to take advantage of this to begin a top-down unity effort.
The problem is that this relationship was completely severed, perhaps even turned upside down, in the 1980s. Some of the most senior CAs were never FOs at CAL. Their "mentors" were a management that broke the union. They don't have a mentor that says we need to watch for our group, rather their mentor says take care of yourself and save the company from mismanagement by VJM to the right seat.
The damage goes beyond this now small group. The whole middle of the pilot group, those who came after, those who are mid to junior CAs now, were "mentored" by these management CAs. They got a very skewed view of the world as junior FOs and either adopted the same views or basically checked out of any union involvement due to sheer exhaustion about the issue. This is a generalization and there are exceptions.
So now, there are few senior CAs to mentor to the junior CAs, and the mid-range CAs don't mentor the FOs because they don't know how to or simply don't want to. The whole process broke down a long time ago.
It is very difficult to start a top-down unity effort when there is no "top" to start with. Can it start at the bottom? FOs may be "****ed off" but they don't control the parking brake. The reason CAs are flying right seat is because the FOs are fed up. The FOs are in growing numbers flying their line and knowing the contract. THIS IS NOT AN ORGANIZED EFFORT. It is happening because company has chronically understaffed the airline and individual pilots are choosing QOL over cash.
The company well understands the dynamic of this mentoring gap and started "training" CAs in a right landing during sim sessions a year ago. Why? Because so far, enough do it to make a difference.
The problem is that this relationship was completely severed, perhaps even turned upside down, in the 1980s. Some of the most senior CAs were never FOs at CAL. Their "mentors" were a management that broke the union. They don't have a mentor that says we need to watch for our group, rather their mentor says take care of yourself and save the company from mismanagement by VJM to the right seat.
The damage goes beyond this now small group. The whole middle of the pilot group, those who came after, those who are mid to junior CAs now, were "mentored" by these management CAs. They got a very skewed view of the world as junior FOs and either adopted the same views or basically checked out of any union involvement due to sheer exhaustion about the issue. This is a generalization and there are exceptions.
So now, there are few senior CAs to mentor to the junior CAs, and the mid-range CAs don't mentor the FOs because they don't know how to or simply don't want to. The whole process broke down a long time ago.
It is very difficult to start a top-down unity effort when there is no "top" to start with. Can it start at the bottom? FOs may be "****ed off" but they don't control the parking brake. The reason CAs are flying right seat is because the FOs are fed up. The FOs are in growing numbers flying their line and knowing the contract. THIS IS NOT AN ORGANIZED EFFORT. It is happening because company has chronically understaffed the airline and individual pilots are choosing QOL over cash.
The company well understands the dynamic of this mentoring gap and started "training" CAs in a right landing during sim sessions a year ago. Why? Because so far, enough do it to make a difference.
08-14-2011, 12:14 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
From my lowly right seat, there are plenty of captains who need the mentoring as well. Perhaps the intent of that comment was to raise the temp around here on all the pilots in both seats who are jumping through their asses to help and are DELAYING US GETTING THE CONTRACT WE DESERVE. Sometimes you need to read between the lines.
There are marvins in both seats. The trip I am currently flying went into open flying because it's original owner accepted a junior man at the last minute to cover a trip. He turned his four day into a two day, probably got pay protected and who knows what else. Makes me sick.
James is sick of the Marvins.
There are marvins in both seats. The trip I am currently flying went into open flying because it's original owner accepted a junior man at the last minute to cover a trip. He turned his four day into a two day, probably got pay protected and who knows what else. Makes me sick.
James is sick of the Marvins.
The MEC could use some leverage, and it is our job to provide it through unity.
The update hit on the fact that education needs to go both ways. There are some captains with 3 ex-wive$ that are not good examples at work to follow, while there are many older F/O's that are just as capable of passing the message along as well.
SP
08-14-2011, 12:16 PM
#13
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
My point is this. Stop sending me messages about how angry you are at the company. Stop sending me messages about how frustrated you are. Don't bother telling me to not wear my hat, or defend my contract. MOST of us do all those things. Get this deal DONE. Did anyone ask her if we are actively trying to be released from mediation? I'm pretty sure I know the answer to that one. The SPC should be meeting 24/7 preparing for us to walk out at the earliest opportunity. Let the Marvin's scab. There aren't enough of them to matter. I'll be happy to do even MORE landings on those trips that I fly with one of them. From what I understand, Wendy doesn't want to be released. If that question was asked, and she answered it, and I'm wrong, then somebody please PM me what she said. Strike fund ready. Contract defended. As they say in The Right Stuff: "I'm cooler than you, now fix your little problem and let's LIGHT THIS CANDLE".
08-14-2011, 12:29 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 118
From my lowly right seat, there are plenty of captains who need the mentoring as well. Perhaps the intent of that comment was to raise the temp around here on all the pilots in both seats who are jumping through their asses to help and are DELAYING US GETTING THE CONTRACT WE DESERVE. Sometimes you need to read between the lines.
There are marvins in both seats. The trip I am currently flying went into open flying because it's original owner accepted a junior man at the last minute to cover a trip. He turned his four day into a two day, probably got pay protected and who knows what else. Makes me sick.
James is sick of the Marvins.
There are marvins in both seats. The trip I am currently flying went into open flying because it's original owner accepted a junior man at the last minute to cover a trip. He turned his four day into a two day, probably got pay protected and who knows what else. Makes me sick.
James is sick of the Marvins.
08-14-2011, 01:03 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
The "young pup FOs" reference is part of the "lecture" on how pilots learn the culture of their airline in their first few years. At CAL this didn't happen in a normal way. You're right, there are no young pups at CAL today and, in fact, the FOs seem to be leading the way (as best they can without authority over the parking brake) to protect their QOL.
Last edited by APC225; 08-14-2011 at 01:16 PM.
08-14-2011, 03:46 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,887
08-14-2011, 03:48 PM
#18
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
The "young pup FOs" reference is part of the "lecture" on how pilots learn the culture of their airline in their first few years. At CAL this didn't happen in a normal way. You're right, there are no young pups at CAL today and, in fact, the FOs seem to be leading the way (as best they can without authority over the parking brake) to protect their QOL.
I'm very very glad to hear that the "newer" pilots at CAL are in the fight! That's vital
Last edited by gettinbumped; 08-14-2011 at 04:35 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
