2012 Delta + 1
08-16-2011, 05:46 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
I never said that.
My problem is with those who say that the C2000 caused UAL's CH11 filing/furloughs and therefore we should never again receive a large contract. It kinda goes along the same line of thought that the pilots were solely responsible for for the Summer of 2K.
The CH11 filing was the result of many events. Rapid growth leading up to the dot com bust, 9/11, increasing fuel costs, and yes, costlier contracts. The company knew of their cash flow problems in the spring of 02. They even knew that if they let current events run their course, we would hit our min cash limit Nov 02 time frame. From my perspective, it seemed like they wasted a lot of time trying to solve the problem. One could even argue they wanted to go bankrupt, shred the contracts, pensions, and ESOP all at once.
It nauseates me to hear someone, let alone a pilot, neatly wrap a large contract gain into a CH11 filing and furloughs. C2000 was essentially an inflationary increase from 1994 to 2000 plus a modest contractual gain. I'm not going to speak for Mr. Average IAH pilot, but coming off a nearly 50% pay cut 8 years ago, I will not vote for an "average contract" and continue to fund our bankruptcy of 3 years ago and senior management's bank account.
My problem is with those who say that the C2000 caused UAL's CH11 filing/furloughs and therefore we should never again receive a large contract. It kinda goes along the same line of thought that the pilots were solely responsible for for the Summer of 2K.
The CH11 filing was the result of many events. Rapid growth leading up to the dot com bust, 9/11, increasing fuel costs, and yes, costlier contracts. The company knew of their cash flow problems in the spring of 02. They even knew that if they let current events run their course, we would hit our min cash limit Nov 02 time frame. From my perspective, it seemed like they wasted a lot of time trying to solve the problem. One could even argue they wanted to go bankrupt, shred the contracts, pensions, and ESOP all at once.
It nauseates me to hear someone, let alone a pilot, neatly wrap a large contract gain into a CH11 filing and furloughs. C2000 was essentially an inflationary increase from 1994 to 2000 plus a modest contractual gain. I'm not going to speak for Mr. Average IAH pilot, but coming off a nearly 50% pay cut 8 years ago, I will not vote for an "average contract" and continue to fund our bankruptcy of 3 years ago and senior management's bank account.
08-16-2011, 05:48 AM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
I have heard people talk that were doing contract negotiations at DAL & UAL at that time. They say things started towards a recession the summer before 9/11. They say that's why they settled for the deals they got.
The attacks reportedly made it a faster and more severe decline, but the net result might have been pretty similar. We'll never know.
The attacks reportedly made it a faster and more severe decline, but the net result might have been pretty similar. We'll never know.
08-16-2011, 05:51 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
Do all of us a favor and go dig up the ACTUAL description management uses.... It's NOT Delta+1.
08-16-2011, 06:29 AM
#74
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
If you took time to 'inform' yourself via your Reps, and other Union Comm Members, you might come to the understanding that MGT/UHC "DAL+1" offer was mirroring Delta Airlines payscales plus $1.....NOT inclusive, nor 100% carbon copy to encompass ALL of DAL's current work rules that reside in their CBA. You understand work rules???.....Those "thingy's" that dictate your QOL, and 'soft money' that one can achieve outside of CBA $ection 3?? Not to mention, DAL's current SCOPE would only further relax CAL's current CBA Section 1!! Say it with me..."HUGE Concession".
If your entirely satisfied with an "industry leading" based solely on DAL's current Section 3 +$1, PLEASE do us ALL a favor.....sit out any future vote.
Much Appreciated.
Last edited by SoCalGuy; 08-16-2011 at 06:20 PM. Reason: Thanx Tony!
08-16-2011, 04:02 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
Good to hear your an exclusive "$$ Section 3 ONLY kinda of guy $$". Does this mean that Section 1 (SCOPE) has no meaning to you, let alone the rest of the entire CBA??
If you took time to inform yourself through your Reps, and other Union Comm Members, you might be versed to understand that MGT/UHC "DAL+1" offer was mirroring Delta Airlines payscales plus $1.....NOT inclusive, nor 100% carbon copy to encompass ALL of DAL's current work rules as their CBA reads. You understand work rules???.....Those "thingy's" that dictate your QOL, and 'soft money' that one can achieve outside of CBA $ection 3?? Not to mention DAL's current SCOPE would only further relax CAL's current CBA Section 1!! Say it with me..."HUGE Concession".
If your entirely satisfied with "industry leading" based solely on DAL's current Section 3 +$1, PLEASE do us ALL a favor.....sit out any future vote.
Much Appreciated.
If you took time to inform yourself through your Reps, and other Union Comm Members, you might be versed to understand that MGT/UHC "DAL+1" offer was mirroring Delta Airlines payscales plus $1.....NOT inclusive, nor 100% carbon copy to encompass ALL of DAL's current work rules as their CBA reads. You understand work rules???.....Those "thingy's" that dictate your QOL, and 'soft money' that one can achieve outside of CBA $ection 3?? Not to mention DAL's current SCOPE would only further relax CAL's current CBA Section 1!! Say it with me..."HUGE Concession".
If your entirely satisfied with "industry leading" based solely on DAL's current Section 3 +$1, PLEASE do us ALL a favor.....sit out any future vote.
Much Appreciated.
08-22-2011, 04:55 PM
#78
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
I like the 900.............very stable platform and nice flying machine. It is VERY underpowered though and most transcons are lucky to see FL360/FL350 during the last few hundred miles. We also use FULL LENGTH on many transcons for takeoff (as well as BLEEDS OFF), and begin rotation with only a 1000' of runway remaining. The puckerfactor goes up on warm days............but overall, I still like flying it. Feels identical to a B-727, and those were a joy to fly. Have fun on them! (Also NEVER land below vref....not even a knot..............the nose will pop up and you'll get a tailstrike before you even had any inkling something was about to happen. I know from experience). The ground spoilers deploy approximately 30 degrees higher on the 900 than the 800's after touchdown............and this causes the nose to pitch up. BE CAREFUL!!!!
08-22-2011, 05:21 PM
#79
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I like the 900.............very stable platform and nice flying machine. It is VERY underpowered though and most transcons are lucky to see FL360/FL350 during the last few hundred miles. We also use FULL LENGTH on many transcons for takeoff (as well as BLEEDS OFF), and begin rotation with only a 1000' of runway remaining. The puckerfactor goes up on warm days............but overall, I still like flying it. Feels identical to a B-727, and those were a joy to fly. Have fun on them! (Also NEVER land below vref....not even a knot..............the nose will pop up and you'll get a tailstrike before you even had any inkling something was about to happen. I know from experience). The ground spoilers deploy approximately 30 degrees higher on the 900 than the 800's after touchdown............and this causes the nose to pitch up. BE CAREFUL!!!!
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