100-200 UAL furloughees to CAL
07-16-2011, 01:33 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,887
Hate to break the news to you....But CAL and UAL are part of the same company. If this was not a recall there would be interviews required and I suspect some would not be hired. Just the law of averages and attitudes.
You can turn your back on the opportunity. This is one of the few things ALPA was able to secure. Would you have rather had newhires off the street sitting in those seats while our furloughs while away waiting on mother UAL? Maybe you could go kick your dog and make you day happier. Let the guys that want the job over what they are doing now enjoy something. I bet you are real fun guy on New Years Eve.
L
You can turn your back on the opportunity. This is one of the few things ALPA was able to secure. Would you have rather had newhires off the street sitting in those seats while our furloughs while away waiting on mother UAL? Maybe you could go kick your dog and make you day happier. Let the guys that want the job over what they are doing now enjoy something. I bet you are real fun guy on New Years Eve.
L
"A Pilot accepting an offer under this provision will be subject to the
normal background and employment requirements of the employing Airline."
I know when you are "recalled", they have to do a background check, but what are the "employment requirements"? An "interview", a "sim check".
Some pilots were turned down (or didn't have a chance to interview) at CAL because of "background", or not meeting "employment requirements". So such a furloughed UAL pilot, may not be offered this "opportunity" at CAL...
Or am I over thinking this?
07-16-2011, 01:34 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
07-16-2011, 01:50 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
A short history. CLE had 650 pilots before 9/11 and it was the most junior base. At the same time the first round of 450 furloughs occurred, CAL made a marketing decision to reduce CLE by 400 positions. Basically all the lost positions came out of CLE. After the reshuffling of people on the system bid CLE was suddenly a very senior base. Since then, there has not been any lack in people wanting to return.
With 2/3 of the base being displaced in 2002, there will always be folks coming back after their stint as commuters in a different place or larger equipment.
737 FO most senior to least. LAX, CLE, IAH, EWR, GUM.
737 CA most senior to least. LAX, CLE, EWR, IAH, GUM.
Last edited by APC225; 07-16-2011 at 07:58 PM.
07-16-2011, 03:01 PM
#84
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 6
13-A. Partial Termination.
Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties
may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough
with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base
Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or
after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a
JCBA by that date.
may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough
with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base
Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or
after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a
JCBA by that date.
13-D. Effect of Termination
. Termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11,
12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding
payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant
to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing
Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement;
however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued
service credit at the employing Airline.
What's your take on this section. It apears to me that we could go back to first year pay if the agreement is terminated by the company.
Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11,
12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding
payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant
to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing
Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement;
however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued
service credit at the employing Airline.
What's your take on this section. It apears to me that we could go back to first year pay if the agreement is terminated by the company.
07-16-2011, 03:35 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
13-A. Partial Termination.
Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties
may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough
with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base
Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or
after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a
JCBA by that date.
may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough
with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base
Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or
after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a
JCBA by that date.
13-D. Effect of Termination
. Termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11,
12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding
payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant
to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing
Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement;
however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued
service credit at the employing Airline.
12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding
payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant
to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing
Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement;
however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued
service credit at the employing Airline.
What's your take on this section. It apears to me that we could go back to first year pay if the agreement is terminated by the company.
What do you think the company's response would be if 200 guys walked out after being trained?
07-16-2011, 03:54 PM
#86
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: 2x Furloughed
Posts: 17
13-A. Partial Termination.
Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties
may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough
with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base
Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or
after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a
JCBA by that date.
may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough
with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base
Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or
after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a
JCBA by that date.
13-D. Effect of Termination
. Termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11,
12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding
payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant
to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing
Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement;
however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued
service credit at the employing Airline.
What's your take on this section. It apears to me that we could go back to first year pay if the agreement is terminated by the company.
Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11,
12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding
payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant
to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing
Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement;
however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued
service credit at the employing Airline.
What's your take on this section. It apears to me that we could go back to first year pay if the agreement is terminated by the company.
07-16-2011, 03:57 PM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: Cap. 737
Posts: 293
13-C. Termination by Notice. An Airline Party or ALPA may terminate this
Transition and Process Agreement on fifteen (15) days notice delivered to the
other Parties at any time following termination of the Merger Agreement under
Section 8.1 of that Agreement.
As it was explained to me, 13-C was the only way the agreement could be terminated unilaterally and since the merger has already progressed beyond the point of no return, this section no longer applies. FWIW.
Transition and Process Agreement on fifteen (15) days notice delivered to the
other Parties at any time following termination of the Merger Agreement under
Section 8.1 of that Agreement.
As it was explained to me, 13-C was the only way the agreement could be terminated unilaterally and since the merger has already progressed beyond the point of no return, this section no longer applies. FWIW.
Last edited by SKMarz; 07-16-2011 at 04:21 PM.
07-16-2011, 05:45 PM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
13-A. Partial Termination.
Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties
may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough
with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base
Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or
after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a
JCBA by that date.
may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough
with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base
Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or
after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a
JCBA by that date.
13-D. Effect of Termination
. Termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11,
12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding
payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant
to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing
Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement;
however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued
service credit at the employing Airline.
What's your take on this section. It apears to me that we could go back to first year pay if the agreement is terminated by the company.
Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11,
12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding
payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant
to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing
Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement;
however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued
service credit at the employing Airline.
What's your take on this section. It apears to me that we could go back to first year pay if the agreement is terminated by the company.
You will note that '7-B (Job Opportunities)' is absent from the partial termination section below (13-A). The pay provision of 7-B can only be terminated if the entire T/A is terminated, and since 13-C is no longer a player, that leaves 13-B. Which takes Alpa concurrence.
13-A. Partial Termination. Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough
with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base
Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or
after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a
JCBA by that date.
13-B. Termination by Agreement. The Parties may terminate this Transition
and Process Agreement whenever they shall agree to do so.
13-C. Termination by Notice. An Airline Party or ALPA may terminate this
Transition and Process Agreement on fifteen (15) days notice delivered to the
other Parties at any time following termination of the Merger Agreement under
Section 8.1 of that Agreement.
13-D. Effect of Termination. Termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement will not affect a Party’s obligations under Sections 3, 7-B-(iv), 8, 11,
12, and applicable definitions in Section 1, nor will it affect any outstanding
payment obligations under Section 15. A Pilot who has been employed pursuant
to Section 7-B will continue, at his option, to be employed by the employing
Airline in accordance with that Airline’s collective bargaining agreement;
however, two (2) months after termination of this Transition and Process
Agreement his pay rate going forward will be adjusted to reflect only his accrued
service credit at the employing Airline
Last edited by jsled; 07-16-2011 at 07:06 PM.
07-16-2011, 05:59 PM
#89
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 27
Recall to CAL
I am about 700 to 800 down the list on seniority for UAL. Am just retiring from the military and will take a recall if offered. I thought as a recalled UAL pilot to CAL, we would keep our seniority for pay purposes. I think I remember reading that somewhere. So, year 4-5 pay at CAL not that bad when compared to other options. Can anyone find any reference to starting out at first year pay? thanks.
07-16-2011, 06:15 PM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Read the Transition Agreement carefully---it is available both on alpa.org and and was attached to this week's email update from the UAL corporate furlough coordinator if you are on the UAL email list.
Section 7-B covers the furlough recalls and you will be paid the higher of your UAL rate at time of furlough or the CAL rate for your CAL longevity.
Section 7-B covers the furlough recalls and you will be paid the higher of your UAL rate at time of furlough or the CAL rate for your CAL longevity.
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