APC225

Some rules that will surprise in comparison to any other airline, including regionals, greatly affecting QOL:

- No fixed callout period for the month. They will change it day to day. Today you're in the late callout period to cover the redeye so you sleep as late as you can. They call at 6pm releasing you to 9 hours of rest to a new 3am callout period. You can't sleep again of course and of course they call at 3am and assign you a Whitlow duty day. Or worse they assign you the 3am callout so you go to sleep early the night before then they call at 6am after you're totally rested and release you to 9 hours of rest to fly the redeye that night. It wrecks your sleep cycle. The circadian cycle does not exist.

- Little limit to moving your work days. There are 8 days off that are untouchable. All other days off are soft and they can move work onto these days with no limit. You may have a work block that is 3 days long, followed by 2 soft days off. At the end of the 3 day trip they will "roll" your days off and assign you work on what were days off. They will keep doing this until they hit a legal limit of some kind.

- The FAR 24-hour break in 7 days of work can be given downline. So you can start out on a 3-day trip and be out much longer, with your 24-hour break in an exotic locale, not at home. [UAL's break "in domicile" is a contractual provision that isn't in CAL's contract][also, the new FAA rest reg requires 30 hours (vs 24) off per 7 day lookback "in domicile"--will be a big change at CAL]

- Because of this unlimited flexibility you are obligated to check your schedule for changes each day at 1500 before a work block begins, even though this is a day off. Since there is no set callout period for the month you can't just enjoy your days off and turn your phone on when your callout period starts. They can assign you a trip which you have to check for and checkin for on your day off. It's like being on call on your day off since you are obligated to check. This also applies to each day you're on call. You have to check each day at 1500 even if it during the 9 hours of rest because they can and will change your callout period day by day. There is no predictability. It's like they're calling audibles to you during a 2-minute drill, except it's not for just 2 minutes.

- Long call can be converted to short call at any time and with no limit, so it's nearly useless. Aside from the fact that they assign trips to long calls before short calls, once they run out of short call reserves they'll call a long call reserve and assign them to short call. If you're a commuter instead of commuting in for a trip you'll be commuting in to sit short call at a hotel at your expense. This can done without limit. Since long call is only a 9-hour callout it can be unworkable as a commuter anyway. A 10pm call to show up at 7am? Not a lot of flights operating between those hours for a commute.

This isn't meant to be a Debbie Downer, but it is the reality of QOL. You truly fly to FAR limits round the clock. There are some, very few, two (?) abuses which can result in extra pay, but they won't pay unless you make a claim, and even then the claim has to be made with certain narrow windows of time on the 24 hour clock or else it will be denied. Unreal, but true. Even though UCAL is an "IT company with planes" (their characterization) apparently they're not techie enough to comply with federal law of paying for work performed. The new rest rules should have some affect on making life better on reserve.

EWRflyr

If you are a furloughed UA pilot, it would be almost impossible. CLE has virtually no movement because guys based there almost never leave. CLE FOs wait for a captain to retire or leave by natural causes (hate to say) to upgrade there. This bid shows the CLE base will have 2 captain vacancies and and 2 FO vacancies. Not counting anyone leaving the captain or FO seats that will essentially create 4 FO vacancies.

From the last system bid that opened LAX, 15 FOs were displaced out of CLE as those FOs were no longer needed to do the IRO slots on the Hawaii flying that will be fully shifted to the LAX base. I haven't analyzed the last system bid results but I have heard that a couple of CLE guys went out to LAX voluntarily but that around a dozen junior FOs were still displaced. You can bet those same CO pilots are chomping at the bit for those 2-4 FO slots this bid will result in in order to get back to CLE. Again there could be more slots if some of the CA or FOs out there bid for other planes, but I wouldn't count on mass movement in the CLE pilot base. Hasn't happened historically there.

Sorry to bring that news, but I didn't just want to give a flip answer like "Almost impossible" without giving the full context of the answer. Wish you luck though.

pilotgolfer

What do the reserve staffing levels look like? Just looking at EWR, how many 737 pilots are based there and how do the numbers break down in terms of liner holders vs. # of reserves?

Does the company publish reserve useage...monthly hours flown by the reserves?

APC225

Reserve are generally 10% of the total pilots. 360 EWR 737 FOs.

The union has the flight hour numbers but averages don't tell the story. Once they've got a reserve on a trip there is a tendency to keep using him vice using a fresh, much lower time reserve, because they tend to hold a non-flying reserve back just in case. Kind of like hoarding, except with human beings. Consequently you can have guy breaking min guarantee of 72 hours, while another hasn't flown in 6 weeks.

jsled

Good lord. It is no wonder you guys have some junior Captains. I am not sure that 4 stripes is worth dealing with that!!

UAL Rsv highlights:

long call: 13 hour call out

short call: 4 hour call out
everyone is long call until assigned a short call. cs usually builds the short calls at 7am, but can build them anytime. They usually assign them at 1pm domicile time the day prior.

reserve pick up option: allows you to pick up a trip in open time 28 hrs prior to departure on the computer without crew sched involvement.


12 days off are fixed in the domestic operation. They cannot be moved

the 24 hours off in 7 days is in domicile on reserve. Lineholders can check a box to waive this, but reserves cannot. So, max rsv days in a row is 6

reserves get 14 hours block to block rest in domicile. this cannot be waived by pilot, but can be waived by crew sched if "only rsv available"

i have been on rsv for the last 5 years. It sucks, but nothing like I am reading about CAL. Using the reserve pick up option, I have gone some months without even talking to cs. My days off are fixed, and my days on are spent on a "normal" trip most months. This is all DOMESTIC. Intl' rules are different.

Sled

kc135driver

8 yr pay, Nov 99 furloughee (involuntary). Not planning on taking it.

I'd wager they will call most of the list. A lot more have moved on that don't frequent this forum. Also, most of us really don't want to commute to reserve again. My 2 cents.

jsled

Are you guys flying the 737 LAX-HI with an IRO? IOW, doing turns with 3 pilots? Just curious.

Sled

SONORA PASS

EWR,

Sorry if this has already been posted, but I did not see the closing date on the new bid. What date do they run the bid awards, and post the results for the CAL pilots? Do they show the unfilled vacancies after the bid runs like UAL did? Seems like the best way to know what bases will likely be offered to UAL pilots will be determined by that list if it is done that way at CAL.

Thanks for all the very helpful information you, and so many other CAL pilots have provided!

SP

***** Disregard *****

Already answered by CAL on UAL/CAL forum;

Awards on July 26th.
Unfilled openings by Base, Equipment, Seat will be posted at that time as well.

SP

APC225

CAL's is not for commuters. The pilots didn't have any long call until the most recent contract so they didn't even really know what to ask for (apparently). Nine-hour callout is not a commuting callout. It is simply 24 hours on call and you go into FAA min rest when called. That's it. Just min rest. 13 hours actually gives you time to commute.

CAL's are mostly short call with a 3-hour to push callout. This really puts it down to a 2 to 2 1/2 hour call out because you have to get to ops to checkin on the company computer, get your flight kit, check vfile, etc and block out 3 hours after the call. It's a very short leash. Assigned at 1500 or after you block it, whichever is later.

Reserves can pickup after 9am the day before, not 28 hours. And a reserve cannot do anything without talking to cs. You always have to talk to cs for anything as a reserve. It is one of the things that make you feel under their thumb. One cs interprets one way, another cs another. The application of "policies" in the blank areas of the contract can be wide.

Eight days fixed. Pilot can move them but if he does they become unfixed, so not a good idea to move them.

Pretty much same, except 24 hours off can be anywhere, for anybody.

Ha! You've got to be kidding. No wonder negotiations stalled when they got to scheduling section. CAL is 10 (11 in EWR) min for both lineholders and reserve. One way cs can get around even this for reserves is to keep adding to the trip so that even though it overnights in a domicle, since it part of a trip, you don't get in domicle rest (but they do have to give you a hotel).

For the lineholder if he doesn't put a larger number in his PBS monthly bid, PBS will give him a redeye, min rest in base, and then start another trip that night. Block in at 6am, block out at 4pm. Fun, fun, everyone's looking forward to the weekend, weekend.

If I read the UAL contract correctly, UAL pilots must have 16 hours no duty before a redeye. CAL works pilots out to the west coast in the morning, min rest, and then redeye back that night--with another leg after the redeye at times. In fact, as long as it doesn't exceed the duty day, CAL will work right into a redeye (late IAH-PHX, one hour on the ground, redeye).

If only we can hang on to this in the JCBA. It might actually cause some seat movement. There are a lot of FOs parked in senior spots because no one wants to sit reserve.

When the company said they were going to take the best of both worlds in the JCBA, I'm sure "best" to them was CAL's work rules. I'm glad it's not going that way. Imagining QOL at CAL is like trying to imagine military basic training before you go. You really can't comprehend what you've gotten into until you're in the middle of it. If the unions can't get UAL workrules, and much better I hope, in the JCBA it's going to be a miserable 10 years for a lot of people.

You simply can't imagine.

Coto Pilot

What are the odds of getting LAX?