100-200 UAL furloughees to CAL
07-17-2011, 04:52 PM
#111
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,887
What is the deal with "probation" at CAL if one were to accept? There are those who never finished probation at UAL before being furloughed. Does it start over at CAL, or does the time spent at UAL get credited?
07-17-2011, 05:33 PM
#112
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,861
No "probation" for the furloughed UAL folks at CAL from I have heard.
07-17-2011, 08:16 PM
#114
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
The $37/hr is second year pay at Skywest. Second year pay at CAL is $20/hr more, and UAL was only $15/hr more.
AND there is more than one type of aircraft to fly at UAL/CAL. And there were only a few classes that didn't make it to second year pay at UAL. So I am not understanding the comparison here?
AND there is more than one type of aircraft to fly at UAL/CAL. And there were only a few classes that didn't make it to second year pay at UAL. So I am not understanding the comparison here?
The comparison was in response to a fellow UAL pilot who turned down the Jets for Jobs offer. I do not blame him at all, but questioned the uniform application of the principle used.
The Jets for Jobs put UAL pilots at 2nd year pay during their 1st year. If $37/hr is too low for 1st year RJ pay, my comparisson was saying that $31/hr or $33/hr to fly a B737 or A320 is even worse. Sooo... if we say $37/hr is an insult (which it is), we degrade our profession by offering our new hires even less!
No ALPA contract should ever go out for a vote with welfare wages at the entry level. The heavily skewed pay scales destroy the ablity to have any career mobility, and shackle the pilot to his or her company for better, or most often worse.
Lets fix this mess and build contract pay scales from the base up.
SP
07-18-2011, 02:44 AM
#115
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Furlough/Gun Driver
Posts: 437
Bus Driver,
The comparison was in response to a fellow UAL pilot who turned down the Jets for Jobs offer. I do not blame him at all, but questioned the uniform application of the principle used.
The Jets for Jobs put UAL pilots at 2nd year pay during their 1st year. If $37/hr is too low for 1st year RJ pay, my comparisson was saying that $31/hr or $33/hr to fly a B737 or A320 is even worse. Sooo... if we say $37/hr is an insult (which it is), we degrade our profession by offering our new hires even less!
No ALPA contract should ever go out for a vote with welfare wages at the entry level. The heavily skewed pay scales destroy the ablity to have any career mobility, and shackle the pilot to his or her company for better, or most often worse.
Lets fix this mess and build contract pay scales from the base up.
SP
The comparison was in response to a fellow UAL pilot who turned down the Jets for Jobs offer. I do not blame him at all, but questioned the uniform application of the principle used.
The Jets for Jobs put UAL pilots at 2nd year pay during their 1st year. If $37/hr is too low for 1st year RJ pay, my comparisson was saying that $31/hr or $33/hr to fly a B737 or A320 is even worse. Sooo... if we say $37/hr is an insult (which it is), we degrade our profession by offering our new hires even less!
No ALPA contract should ever go out for a vote with welfare wages at the entry level. The heavily skewed pay scales destroy the ablity to have any career mobility, and shackle the pilot to his or her company for better, or most often worse.
Lets fix this mess and build contract pay scales from the base up.
SP
SP
It isn't only the pay at the J for J program. It is also the longevity, if the longevity accrued at the J for J carrier transferred back to UCAL when called back from furlough I might consider it.
It is BS that my job is eleminated, moved to a regional, then I am offered a job at that regional were I may be for many years with pay that lags way behind mainline in subsequent years (I was looking beyond the second year pay as well). Then when several years down the road I am recalled and my longevity at UCAL would return to my furlough point after I have been flying the same airlines customers?
What I find insulting is; having my work outsourced, being offered a job at that outsourced company (essentially replacing myself) and having people expect me to be happy about it, being whipsawed against myself, and finally the fact that ALPA thinks it is acceptable to have us outsurce ourselves.
07-18-2011, 11:37 AM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
SP
It isn't only the pay at the J for J program. It is also the longevity, if the longevity accrued at the J for J carrier transferred back to UCAL when called back from furlough I might consider it.
It is BS that my job is eleminated, moved to a regional, then I am offered a job at that regional were I may be for many years with pay that lags way behind mainline in subsequent years (I was looking beyond the second year pay as well). Then when several years down the road I am recalled and my longevity at UCAL would return to my furlough point after I have been flying the same airlines customers?
What I find insulting is; having my work outsourced, being offered a job at that outsourced company (essentially replacing myself) and having people expect me to be happy about it, being whipsawed against myself, and finally the fact that ALPA thinks it is acceptable to have us outsurce ourselves.
It isn't only the pay at the J for J program. It is also the longevity, if the longevity accrued at the J for J carrier transferred back to UCAL when called back from furlough I might consider it.
It is BS that my job is eleminated, moved to a regional, then I am offered a job at that regional were I may be for many years with pay that lags way behind mainline in subsequent years (I was looking beyond the second year pay as well). Then when several years down the road I am recalled and my longevity at UCAL would return to my furlough point after I have been flying the same airlines customers?
What I find insulting is; having my work outsourced, being offered a job at that outsourced company (essentially replacing myself) and having people expect me to be happy about it, being whipsawed against myself, and finally the fact that ALPA thinks it is acceptable to have us outsurce ourselves.
I could not agree more with your points. At a minimum the Jets for Jobs offer should have been RJ left seat with pay set at greater of years of service at UAL applied, or pay at UAL adjusted each year for longevity credit. Best would be our old scope clause. UAL jets = UAL pilots.
Here is the point I made. We need to consider the same principle when it comes to UAL new hire pay. Why would we permit our own new hires to be paid the welfare wages we despise. In this industry it is safe to say that many future UAL new hires may be veteran pilots on refugee status from other carriers. Lets vote NO on any JCBA that does not correct this airline pilot profession degrading "entry level" pay scale.
SP
07-18-2011, 11:45 AM
#117
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
Moderators - Please move this thread back to the CAL/UAL Merger Forum.
Having this listed in the Career Builder Hiring News is a HUGE slap in the face to the United Pilots. They are NOT hiring pilots off the street, they are returning UAL pilots to work.
I trust this was an oversight, and not an intentional insult to the furloughed United Airlines Pilots. Please correct this mistake quickly...
(If you need to change the thread title fine)
SP
Having this listed in the Career Builder Hiring News is a HUGE slap in the face to the United Pilots. They are NOT hiring pilots off the street, they are returning UAL pilots to work.
I trust this was an oversight, and not an intentional insult to the furloughed United Airlines Pilots. Please correct this mistake quickly...
(If you need to change the thread title fine)
SP
07-19-2011, 01:15 AM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
SP
What I find insulting is; having my work outsourced, being offered a job at that outsourced company (essentially replacing myself) and having people expect me to be happy about it, being whipsawed against myself, and finally the fact that ALPA thinks it is acceptable to have us outsurce ourselves.
What I find insulting is; having my work outsourced, being offered a job at that outsourced company (essentially replacing myself) and having people expect me to be happy about it, being whipsawed against myself, and finally the fact that ALPA thinks it is acceptable to have us outsurce ourselves.
KC
07-19-2011, 07:58 AM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
SP
It isn't only the pay at the J for J program. It is also the longevity, if the longevity accrued at the J for J carrier transferred back to UCAL when called back from furlough I might consider it.
It is BS that my job is eleminated, moved to a regional, then I am offered a job at that regional were I may be for many years with pay that lags way behind mainline in subsequent years (I was looking beyond the second year pay as well). Then when several years down the road I am recalled and my longevity at UCAL would return to my furlough point after I have been flying the same airlines customers?
What I find insulting is; having my work outsourced, being offered a job at that outsourced company (essentially replacing myself) and having people expect me to be happy about it, being whipsawed against myself, and finally the fact that ALPA thinks it is acceptable to have us outsurce ourselves.
It isn't only the pay at the J for J program. It is also the longevity, if the longevity accrued at the J for J carrier transferred back to UCAL when called back from furlough I might consider it.
It is BS that my job is eleminated, moved to a regional, then I am offered a job at that regional were I may be for many years with pay that lags way behind mainline in subsequent years (I was looking beyond the second year pay as well). Then when several years down the road I am recalled and my longevity at UCAL would return to my furlough point after I have been flying the same airlines customers?
What I find insulting is; having my work outsourced, being offered a job at that outsourced company (essentially replacing myself) and having people expect me to be happy about it, being whipsawed against myself, and finally the fact that ALPA thinks it is acceptable to have us outsurce ourselves.
07-19-2011, 12:00 PM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Self employed
Posts: 3,048
Moderators - Please move this thread back to the CAL/UAL Merger Forum.
Having this listed in the Career Builder Hiring News is a HUGE slap in the face to the United Pilots. They are NOT hiring pilots off the street, they are returning UAL pilots to work.
I trust this was an oversight, and not an intentional insult to the furloughed United Airlines Pilots. Please correct this mistake quickly...
(If you need to change the thread title fine)
SP
Having this listed in the Career Builder Hiring News is a HUGE slap in the face to the United Pilots. They are NOT hiring pilots off the street, they are returning UAL pilots to work.
I trust this was an oversight, and not an intentional insult to the furloughed United Airlines Pilots. Please correct this mistake quickly...
(If you need to change the thread title fine)
SP
Title changed and returned to CAL/UAL Merger forum. There was no oversight.... the title said HIRING, when that wasn't actually the case.
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