ACP in groundschool 7/07/11
07-09-2011, 10:41 AM
#11
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 10
I clarified this with a CP just last week. His explanation was that the UAL side has over 450 voluntary furloughs. When they are factored in, the furlough date is actually in 98. He then stated, If all CAL pilots took a voluntary furlough except for the bottom pilot, that would make that pilot #1, then integrate the list, and then add the voluntary furloughs back in. Would that be fair?
07-09-2011, 03:50 PM
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 41
Some points made,
It was asked what he thought of the pics with the "NO" proposal all over his door?
He said he welcomed it, that they (the CP office) is the front line management and see daily the life and attitude of the line pilot. When talking with upper management many times the concerns of the line pilot fall on deaf ears, in this case he said he himself fwd many pics from his own phone to prove the unrest.
Why didn't we hire for this summer?
He explained the TA that management is bound to (regarding hiring UAL furloughs), and how it was the determining factor in not hiring. He said that management wants no part of the US Air debacle and hiring UAL furloughs would be more of a huge debacle in integrating the list.
When we will have a contract?
His opinion a TA will be out by the end of the year, whether we vote it in or not is anybody's guess.
When is the next system bid?
Next week, all depends on delivery of 787, it will be on the bid. No new hires.
How are we getting through this summer with regards to staffing?
We are getting slammed. Not good.
Some other notes....
If the economy declines, the highest cost per seat mile is the 319, and they will be parked.
1998 hires at UAL are furloughed, 1998 hires at CAL are Captains, anybody's guess how they integrate the list but it has potential for a mess.
His opinion is that it will closely follow Delta/Nwest type integration, mainly relative sr.
735 being sold to Russia as quickly as possible. Selling off 762 as well.
19 Ng's being delivered next year, 7 left this year.
LAX base to possibly grow on bid.
Ipad 2 with ship sets gotta get FAA auth to use Ipad below 10,000 ft.
Dark blue uniform, blazer and hat. No way we see it by end of year.
It was asked what he thought of the pics with the "NO" proposal all over his door?
He said he welcomed it, that they (the CP office) is the front line management and see daily the life and attitude of the line pilot. When talking with upper management many times the concerns of the line pilot fall on deaf ears, in this case he said he himself fwd many pics from his own phone to prove the unrest.
Why didn't we hire for this summer?
He explained the TA that management is bound to (regarding hiring UAL furloughs), and how it was the determining factor in not hiring. He said that management wants no part of the US Air debacle and hiring UAL furloughs would be more of a huge debacle in integrating the list.
When we will have a contract?
His opinion a TA will be out by the end of the year, whether we vote it in or not is anybody's guess.
When is the next system bid?
Next week, all depends on delivery of 787, it will be on the bid. No new hires.
How are we getting through this summer with regards to staffing?
We are getting slammed. Not good.
Some other notes....
If the economy declines, the highest cost per seat mile is the 319, and they will be parked.
1998 hires at UAL are furloughed, 1998 hires at CAL are Captains, anybody's guess how they integrate the list but it has potential for a mess.
His opinion is that it will closely follow Delta/Nwest type integration, mainly relative sr.
735 being sold to Russia as quickly as possible. Selling off 762 as well.
19 Ng's being delivered next year, 7 left this year.
LAX base to possibly grow on bid.
Ipad 2 with ship sets gotta get FAA auth to use Ipad below 10,000 ft.
Dark blue uniform, blazer and hat. No way we see it by end of year.
Merger policy has changed since that merger too. Time will tell. Even the ACP has an ahole, I mean opinion.
07-09-2011, 05:01 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 374
This was one of his hypothetical scenarios when asked to expand on what he meant by a mess caused by the TA. Of course guys jumped on him if he knew anything of UAL furloughs in the fall, he said nobody knows but it is a fact that UAL will be overstaffed 5-7% after the summer.
07-09-2011, 05:04 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
UA furloughed about 1450 to get 950 warm bodies out the door (about 400-450 junior pilots were on various leaves, mostly military) and the most junior of the involuntary furloughs was August '99. I'm guessing the CP's are getting their information third hand and confusing or spinning some facts in the process. No shocker, right?
There were also a number of voluntary furloughs but these pilots were spread across the entire spectrum of the seniority list.
07-09-2011, 05:22 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
13-A. Partial Termination. Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a JCBA by that date.
Unless ALPA terminates the TRANSITION AND PROCESS LOA both UCH airlines are still bound by section 7-B which requires either airline to offer jobs to furloughed pilots from the other company prior to hiring off the street.
7-B. Job Opportunities.
(i) If either Continental or United intends to hire new Pilots, it will first offer employment to fill such positions in seniority order to Pilots on furlough from the other Airline... [remainder of text omitted for length.]
(i) If either Continental or United intends to hire new Pilots, it will first offer employment to fill such positions in seniority order to Pilots on furlough from the other Airline... [remainder of text omitted for length.]
Not to take away from a good ****ing contest about the list but this is what sticks out to me. The translation is "blame the union for us not bringing on the UAL guys". Never mind the fact that the company signed off on the TPA as well, it is clearly spelled out how bringing on any UAL guys will have no impact on the SLI. Straight out of the play book to blame staffing ills on the union. Don't buy it.
Last edited by cadetdrivr; 07-09-2011 at 06:23 PM. Reason: Added text from transition agreement
07-09-2011, 06:59 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
Safe to say that if this airline furloughs additional UAL guys while hiring off the street CAL guys next year, you will see one helluvafkn riot by the bottom half of our seniority list (IOW 14 yr PFO's like myself). Send that message to your mgt types. My guess is that they're pulling the "let's get them thinkin they're lucky to have a job" tactic. Time will tell.
07-09-2011, 09:36 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 111
They have made it through another summer at CAL. July is in progress and the bids close for August shortly. I fly every day on reserve and just finished 33 hours in an airplane in 5 days. They are covered. Its on the back of the reserves and the 90 hour line holders who cant get a break. But they made it through another summer. They sure as heck wont bring anyone back for a long time now.....
07-10-2011, 06:56 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Capt. B737
Posts: 329
I fly every day on reserve and just finished 33 hours in an airplane in 5 days.
and the 90 hour line holders who cant get a break.
They get through the min staffing because guys and gals line up like lemmings at the edge of a cliff. Until that stops....expect more of the same.
07-10-2011, 11:37 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 111
That's great for you. I have under 50 hours in my sick bank. I shouldnt be forced to use SICK bank to give myself a reasonable schedule. I would have zero sick bank if I called in every time I worked more than I wanted. I file asaps every time I am double dutied or flown redeye to daytrip and back, which is constant.
But thanks for the "don't fly it" comments and the lemmings remarks. I'll call them tomorrow and tell them I prefer 9-5 three days a week.
But thanks for the "don't fly it" comments and the lemmings remarks. I'll call them tomorrow and tell them I prefer 9-5 three days a week.
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