Questions about 787s at UAL/CAL
06-09-2011, 04:19 AM
#41
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Position: 767 Capt
Posts: 81
J
06-09-2011, 04:38 AM
#42
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Posts: 3,071
Yep.
06-09-2011, 05:17 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Agreed 100%.
IMHO, part of the issue here is a cultural mis-match between the pilots groups rooted in the historic perception of "widebody" at pre-merger UA.
While UA was the launch customer for the 767-200, the aircraft was obviously much smaller than the existing UA 747's and DC-10's. Several years later when the 767-300's and 757's arrived they were all mixed one in big fleet with a single pay scale placed between the widebodies and the smaller narrowbodies. (International flying would result in a modest hourly over-ride.) For PMUA pilots, the 767 fleet has always been the "mid-size" fleet particularly with the 757's dominating the mix nearly 3:1.
Ask a UA pilot today what fleets are the widebodies and they will tell you the 777 & 747. Thus --and this is neither right or wrong-- from the perspective of many UA pilots here's how it looks:
United
747's - 26
777's - 52
-----------
Total - 78
Continental
777's - 20
-----------
Total - 20
(The numbers above are from airlinepilotcentral.com. I believe one 747 has subsequently left the fleet and am unsure about any CAL 777 additions. In any event those changes are minor and don't change the ratios much.)
Thus the ratio of widebodies is ~3.9:1 and each pre-merger airline is pretty well matched with 767's (CAL = 26, UAL = 34)
IMHO, part of the issue here is a cultural mis-match between the pilots groups rooted in the historic perception of "widebody" at pre-merger UA.
While UA was the launch customer for the 767-200, the aircraft was obviously much smaller than the existing UA 747's and DC-10's. Several years later when the 767-300's and 757's arrived they were all mixed one in big fleet with a single pay scale placed between the widebodies and the smaller narrowbodies. (International flying would result in a modest hourly over-ride.) For PMUA pilots, the 767 fleet has always been the "mid-size" fleet particularly with the 757's dominating the mix nearly 3:1.
Ask a UA pilot today what fleets are the widebodies and they will tell you the 777 & 747. Thus --and this is neither right or wrong-- from the perspective of many UA pilots here's how it looks:
United
747's - 26
777's - 52
-----------
Total - 78
Continental
777's - 20
-----------
Total - 20
(The numbers above are from airlinepilotcentral.com. I believe one 747 has subsequently left the fleet and am unsure about any CAL 777 additions. In any event those changes are minor and don't change the ratios much.)
Thus the ratio of widebodies is ~3.9:1 and each pre-merger airline is pretty well matched with 767's (CAL = 26, UAL = 34)
06-09-2011, 05:41 AM
#44
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,900
Originally Posted by beeker;
Anybody else want to throw out some sort of widebody definition.
06-09-2011, 07:53 AM
#45
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Posts: 2,143
Agreed 100%.
IMHO, part of the issue here is a cultural mis-match between the pilots groups rooted in the historic perception of "widebody" at pre-merger UA.
While UA was the launch customer for the 767-200, the aircraft was obviously much smaller than the existing UA 747's and DC-10's. Several years later when the 767-300's and 757's arrived they were all mixed one in big fleet with a single pay scale placed between the widebodies and the smaller narrowbodies. (International flying would result in a modest hourly over-ride.) For PMUA pilots, the 767 fleet has always been the "mid-size" fleet particularly with the 757's dominating the mix nearly 3:1.
Ask a UA pilot today what fleets are the widebodies and they will tell you the 777 & 747. Thus --and this is neither right or wrong-- from the perspective of many UA pilots here's how it looks:
United
747's - 26
777's - 52
-----------
Total - 78
Continental
777's - 20
-----------
Total - 20
(The numbers above are from airlinepilotcentral.com. I believe one 747 has subsequently left the fleet and am unsure about any CAL 777 additions. In any event those changes are minor and don't change the ratios much.)
Thus the ratio of widebodies is ~3.9:1 and each pre-merger airline is pretty well matched with 767's (CAL = 26, UAL = 34)
IMHO, part of the issue here is a cultural mis-match between the pilots groups rooted in the historic perception of "widebody" at pre-merger UA.
While UA was the launch customer for the 767-200, the aircraft was obviously much smaller than the existing UA 747's and DC-10's. Several years later when the 767-300's and 757's arrived they were all mixed one in big fleet with a single pay scale placed between the widebodies and the smaller narrowbodies. (International flying would result in a modest hourly over-ride.) For PMUA pilots, the 767 fleet has always been the "mid-size" fleet particularly with the 757's dominating the mix nearly 3:1.
Ask a UA pilot today what fleets are the widebodies and they will tell you the 777 & 747. Thus --and this is neither right or wrong-- from the perspective of many UA pilots here's how it looks:
United
747's - 26
777's - 52
-----------
Total - 78
Continental
777's - 20
-----------
Total - 20
(The numbers above are from airlinepilotcentral.com. I believe one 747 has subsequently left the fleet and am unsure about any CAL 777 additions. In any event those changes are minor and don't change the ratios much.)
Thus the ratio of widebodies is ~3.9:1 and each pre-merger airline is pretty well matched with 767's (CAL = 26, UAL = 34)
06-09-2011, 08:33 AM
#46
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
767-400 is only a 7 feet shorter than a 777 so I'd say it counts as a widebody as well. So that makes it 78 vs 36 for a difference of 2.16 to 1
When did this become an issue of length versus girth?
When did this become an issue of length versus girth?
06-09-2011, 01:18 PM
#47
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Line Pilot
Posts: 142
How about the flight attendants? I think UA has a much higher ratio of widebodies than CAL. Probably 5:1, how we gonna fence that? Everyone needs to chill around here. This is getting silly.
06-09-2011, 02:33 PM
#48
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Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,887
(rim shot)
06-09-2011, 03:03 PM
#49
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Posts: 2,639
06-09-2011, 04:51 PM
#50
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Posts: 1,559
Truthfully the only "wide bodies" are those who eat all the left over food, fly 100 hrs a month, don't exercise and think getting up when the remote fails will get their heart rate going.
I am amazed how many gain at least 50 lbs or more when they start flying the international routes in "wide body" airplanes. And you made fun of the Flight attendants.
Remember the old joke, "How do you get a SEA flight attendant into the cockpit?"
So how do you get a "wide body" captain out of the cockpit in an evac?
PS. 767s should have been a wide body, but that goes back to 1981 and the "Ferg" years when UAL introduced the -200 into aviation history.
I am amazed how many gain at least 50 lbs or more when they start flying the international routes in "wide body" airplanes. And you made fun of the Flight attendants.
Remember the old joke, "How do you get a SEA flight attendant into the cockpit?"
So how do you get a "wide body" captain out of the cockpit in an evac?
PS. 767s should have been a wide body, but that goes back to 1981 and the "Ferg" years when UAL introduced the -200 into aviation history.
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