UAL furloughs and CAL hiring.
04-11-2011, 08:37 AM
#71
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
I'm pretty sure that the new jets we have coming on line every couple of weeks pretty much offsets the parking of the 500's.
04-11-2011, 02:21 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
(Not directed personally at you cattII)
And herein lies the entire problem with us and ALPA. We cannot fathom a scenario where any side can realize the value of another. We give lip service to those who lose jobs yet when it comes down to it, will not lift a finger to make any difference. On other threads we have our own liberals bemoaning income disparity in society, but when it comes to actually creating equality withing our own profession, our own selfish egos forbid it. We hide behind an overreaching concept of seniority or of being made whole because what management has done to us, all while exacting a price from our own.
BTW, this is an indictment of pilots on both sides of the fence, UAL and CAL.
So after those of us hired in 1999 get placed behind somebody hired in 2006 and then get furloughed for the third time when the aircraft the 2006 new hire brought to the marriage gets parked because of oil, how will we all feel? I'm sure when it happens many here will put their blinders on, say it sucks and reiterate how we are one airline now and need to move on. Right. Each will pull up their own personal ladder and maybe thrown in .5% of their wages into another furlough fund. All while holding bond money (UAL) most doublees never got and stock/retro pay from some future JCBA we will never see. Say it can't happen? Just look at history already.
So yes, you are correct, the arbitrator will decide, however, there is nothing to stop your leadership from recognizing the position of the double furloughed in front of an arbitrator and concede to an outcome other than mass stapling. The story isn't written yet, we all still have a choice. Take a look outside of your own career for a minute and have some courage to break the mold. Give some of us who have given everything a reason to believe we, as a union, will act differently in the future.
KC
And herein lies the entire problem with us and ALPA. We cannot fathom a scenario where any side can realize the value of another. We give lip service to those who lose jobs yet when it comes down to it, will not lift a finger to make any difference. On other threads we have our own liberals bemoaning income disparity in society, but when it comes to actually creating equality withing our own profession, our own selfish egos forbid it. We hide behind an overreaching concept of seniority or of being made whole because what management has done to us, all while exacting a price from our own.
BTW, this is an indictment of pilots on both sides of the fence, UAL and CAL.
So after those of us hired in 1999 get placed behind somebody hired in 2006 and then get furloughed for the third time when the aircraft the 2006 new hire brought to the marriage gets parked because of oil, how will we all feel? I'm sure when it happens many here will put their blinders on, say it sucks and reiterate how we are one airline now and need to move on. Right. Each will pull up their own personal ladder and maybe thrown in .5% of their wages into another furlough fund. All while holding bond money (UAL) most doublees never got and stock/retro pay from some future JCBA we will never see. Say it can't happen? Just look at history already.
So yes, you are correct, the arbitrator will decide, however, there is nothing to stop your leadership from recognizing the position of the double furloughed in front of an arbitrator and concede to an outcome other than mass stapling. The story isn't written yet, we all still have a choice. Take a look outside of your own career for a minute and have some courage to break the mold. Give some of us who have given everything a reason to believe we, as a union, will act differently in the future.
KC
04-11-2011, 04:55 PM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: B777
Posts: 586
(Not directed personally at you cattII)
And herein lies the entire problem with us and ALPA. We cannot fathom a scenario where any side can realize the value of another. We give lip service to those who lose jobs yet when it comes down to it, will not lift a finger to make any difference. On other threads we have our own liberals bemoaning income disparity in society, but when it comes to actually creating equality withing our own profession, our own selfish egos forbid it. We hide behind an overreaching concept of seniority or of being made whole because what management has done to us, all while exacting a price from our own.
BTW, this is an indictment of pilots on both sides of the fence, UAL and CAL.
So after those of us hired in 1999 get placed behind somebody hired in 2006 and then get furloughed for the third time when the aircraft the 2006 new hire brought to the marriage gets parked because of oil, how will we all feel? I'm sure when it happens many here will put their blinders on, say it sucks and reiterate how we are one airline now and need to move on. Right. Each will pull up their own personal ladder and maybe thrown in .5% of their wages into another furlough fund. All while holding bond money (UAL) most doublees never got and stock/retro pay from some future JCBA we will never see. Say it can't happen? Just look at history already.
So yes, you are correct, the arbitrator will decide, however, there is nothing to stop your leadership from recognizing the position of the double furloughed in front of an arbitrator and concede to an outcome other than mass stapling. The story isn't written yet, we all still have a choice. Take a look outside of your own career for a minute and have some courage to break the mold. Give some of us who have given everything a reason to believe we, as a union, will act differently in the future.
KC
And herein lies the entire problem with us and ALPA. We cannot fathom a scenario where any side can realize the value of another. We give lip service to those who lose jobs yet when it comes down to it, will not lift a finger to make any difference. On other threads we have our own liberals bemoaning income disparity in society, but when it comes to actually creating equality withing our own profession, our own selfish egos forbid it. We hide behind an overreaching concept of seniority or of being made whole because what management has done to us, all while exacting a price from our own.
BTW, this is an indictment of pilots on both sides of the fence, UAL and CAL.
So after those of us hired in 1999 get placed behind somebody hired in 2006 and then get furloughed for the third time when the aircraft the 2006 new hire brought to the marriage gets parked because of oil, how will we all feel? I'm sure when it happens many here will put their blinders on, say it sucks and reiterate how we are one airline now and need to move on. Right. Each will pull up their own personal ladder and maybe thrown in .5% of their wages into another furlough fund. All while holding bond money (UAL) most doublees never got and stock/retro pay from some future JCBA we will never see. Say it can't happen? Just look at history already.
So yes, you are correct, the arbitrator will decide, however, there is nothing to stop your leadership from recognizing the position of the double furloughed in front of an arbitrator and concede to an outcome other than mass stapling. The story isn't written yet, we all still have a choice. Take a look outside of your own career for a minute and have some courage to break the mold. Give some of us who have given everything a reason to believe we, as a union, will act differently in the future.
KC
Well said...
04-11-2011, 06:03 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,905
You must be looking at an old order book. There are nowhere close to that many planes being delivered for the remainder of 2011 and 2012 at CAL.
04-11-2011, 08:12 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 880
KC and other UA brothers,
No offense but what happened to you under the UA brand pre-merger doesn't and shouldn't matter for SLI. While I know once, twice and maybe three times furlough is beyond horrible. Your hire date years ago doesn't give you automatic head of line privileges. During the hiring years of 04-07, you could have left UA but you didn't. Sticking with UA made sense to you, I am sure. However look at the lens of career expectations for us young pups at CAL. There are reasons that I didn't come to UAL, Tilton's managent rings here.
You were faced with choices when you joined the industry and made the best that call that you could. I made the same choice a few years later. It was all a crap shoot and has worked out better for me. I am not and will not succumb to the were older line so we go first argument.
A panel will decide our fate. I do expect to go above some of you "more senior", adding furlough in, guys. Career expectations are part of it. If oil didn't go to 147.00, if a recession didn't happen, we wouldn't be discussing this. All that did happen and now we have to dance. Best of luck to all of us.
No offense but what happened to you under the UA brand pre-merger doesn't and shouldn't matter for SLI. While I know once, twice and maybe three times furlough is beyond horrible. Your hire date years ago doesn't give you automatic head of line privileges. During the hiring years of 04-07, you could have left UA but you didn't. Sticking with UA made sense to you, I am sure. However look at the lens of career expectations for us young pups at CAL. There are reasons that I didn't come to UAL, Tilton's managent rings here.
You were faced with choices when you joined the industry and made the best that call that you could. I made the same choice a few years later. It was all a crap shoot and has worked out better for me. I am not and will not succumb to the were older line so we go first argument.
A panel will decide our fate. I do expect to go above some of you "more senior", adding furlough in, guys. Career expectations are part of it. If oil didn't go to 147.00, if a recession didn't happen, we wouldn't be discussing this. All that did happen and now we have to dance. Best of luck to all of us.
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