CitationD

I'm afraid that sums it up. UAL parks airplanes and junior UAL pilots get the shaft. Now CAL will park airplanes and junior UAL pilots will get the shaft again. I will happily eat my words if I am wrong.

DC
2172/1437

boxer6

R.G. You summed up exactly what my implication was in my post.

Some asked what should be expected of the CAL MEC. What should be expected from BOTH MEC's is obvious. The only reason they are BOTH now at a company that is better able to compete and survive this crazy business is because those 1400+ guys were let go to facilitate it.

Clearly, both airlines survivability would be more precarious (Smisek admitted that CAL would EVENTUALLY disappear as a stand alone) as more mergers would take place and those left out are disadvantaged. With DAL/NWA it sealed the fate that those left out would die.

So, I think the sticking points would be more the CAL side. Every one on that list now enjoys a huge global network, arguably more desirable bases, more diverse flying AND a profoundly more optimistic future of a globally competitive company (you have think long term big picture..not just today) thanks to that merger.

If you can understand how a "merger of equals" deal works...a deal that involves no cash and the ONLY way this merger could happen... then you will understand the fleet parking and ultimately the loss of jobs on the UA side was a prerequisite.

1400+ really did pay for UA and CAL's future... dearly. Remember, many(anyone have a number?) are double furloughees in there 40's and some in there 50's....THE critical time for retirement savings and not much time left for them. Take care of them. Figure it out, its not that hard and its the right to do.

ewrbasedpilot

Don't think you can blame CAL for this one. We keep hearing from UAL employees that UAL BOUGHT CAL, so it's your OWN company doing it to you again (if it does indeed happen). What's REALLY killing us now is the ridiculous price of oil. Until something is done to reign in oil prices we are ALL screwed.

Regularguy

"Until something is done to reign in oil prices we are ALL screwed."

"reign in oil prices?" Your kidding right? The whole oil industry wants price competition to control the flow of oil. It is said by their best leaders that prices under $80.00 a barrel are bad for their industry. They even predicted this current rise in prices. At this time last year I read, from the industry, prices for a barrel of oil would average almost $120.00 for 2010 and $150.00 for 2012.

So get over it the aviation industry is getting smaller. If it were me, which it is, I would recommend steps to encourage early retirements.

boxer6

Those furloughees (especially the doubles)who have borne the brunt of this merger will hopefully witness a playbook of yesteryear. After reading this forum for many years I have never witnessed a single group of men and women who have been so consistently pained for so long. Ten years is it?

I'm going to steal a post by RG (sorry rg) from another thread. It really explains two different philosophies and, in many ways, the difference (generally speaking, of course) of those born in the 1920's and 30's to those born in the 1940's and 50's. :

"I was there at the MEC level in 1985, and was privy to the conversations about the offer. The reason why the AMR contract was turned down can be summed up in the statement of the MEC Chair, Roger Hall, "we may end up with a "b-scale" but they will have to pay for it if they want it..."

In fact it was considered and turned down for two reasons:
1. It would not work. UAL would have been about 800 pilots short due to the better work rules in the AMR contract.
2. Second the "b-scale" became the focus of the 1985 negotiations and the MEC, led by Roger Hall, at the time would not go down in history as selling out the un-hired/furloughed pilots at the time.

Additionally you might remember at the time UAL already had a "b-scale" in place from the 1981 contract where the MEC Chair, John Ferg, sold out the furloughees with permanent "b-scale" S/O pay rates, which is credited with leading the way for AMR's "b-scale." In 1985 Roger Hall determined he would not be the author of another such incident even though it was inevitable."

At the end of the day, will the UA/CAL MEC's be a "Ferg" or will they be a "Hall" in their ideology and behavior?? Many lament and some scream about how the greedy CEO's, et al., "get theirs" and then pull up the ladder on the regular worker leaving them with the short end of the stick. It will be interesting to see who practices what they preach.

No hiding behind the Arbitrator. The CAL/UAL pilot groups alone will write their own legacy in the annals of ALPA and labor history.

CitationD

I don't believe I was blaming anyone - what's the use? I just call it like I see it. Do you think I am mistaken? I don't give a **** what anybody thinks about who bought who or what the name of the company is that will continue to harm the careers of myself and 1,436 of my friends.

I think you missed my point entirely. Please reread my post and tell me if you think I am wrong. I truly hope that I am.

CitationD

11 years for me - even longer for some. I have had the pleasure of getting to know quite a few of them over the years, and I can tell you we have some amazing people on our "distinguished" little list - many of whom are active, vocal and will never stop fighting for what is right.

Down but not out.

FurloughedX2

Here ,here CitationD. I am with you brother!

Dicecal

We can only hope that if the CAL side does park jets, it happens before any SLI. (which is likely, since it looks like we won't have a JCBA anytime soon)

ewrbasedpilot

Why would I be kidding? There's NOTHING but speculators pushing the price up, and yet the airlines are being fingered as the "bad boys" for trying to keep up with rising fuel costs by increasing ticket prices..........yet they stumble most of the time due to "we don't have to raise fares" crap from LCC's. Everyong is bleeding now, and if something ISN'T done to stop the insane rise of jet fuel/oil prices, we'll all be out of a job. There's NOTHING that supports oil above $70 a bbl.