kc135driver

Absolutely not, however, a 1999 UAL hire should NOT be furloughed a third time when a CAL 737 gets parked, period.

I see the solution as something between the two positions. DOH does not work anymore than mass stapling due to current employment status.

Bottom line is we need to make this a win-win somehow. I do not want to "win" at the cost of my CAL brethren any more than I want to be steamrolled. We need to save our militancy for the company. And no, I don't believe in the mantra of just leaving it to the arbitrator, even though I know that is who will decide. Maybe this will work but it is just too risky and only really serves as cover for incompetent leadership. There is a lot of space between now and then and much we can do to jointly narrow our positions, it does not have to be a death match or a winner takes all scenario.....

OR

We can just do what ALPA normally does, claim impotence and shirk from their responsibilities for fear of actually being held responsible for possibly compromising with each other, and wage war like some dysfunctional married couple. Then we will have a new status quo made permanent which plots one pilot against another and the aftermath could be felt by some a lot longer than others. No, this is too important just to hand it over to an arbitrator.

Either way, ALPA needs to wake up to the fact that the loudest most active group of members, or future non-members if so be it, is the remaining 2172/1437.

KC

Warthawg

Gents. Should I bother applying to CAL on the airlineapps website, or am I waisting my time. Alibi - new to the civilian game.

Bandera89

IMO you are waisting your time. By the time UniCal hires there will be a new hiring process in place.

There are 1437+ furloughed UAL pilots still on the street, some of us for a second time in twelve years. Go to FedEx, SWA, you will be better off..

Bandera89

Emotions are HIGH..

Being a two time furloughee at United and a furloughee from another airline while on furlough from UAL, I am getting tired of the whining. I have learned you just have to make it happen for yourself. Do I look back and say what could have been, YES! Do I dream, YES! The key to it is keep looking forward to opportunities we do have ahead.

Plain and simple, unfortunately -- UAL furloughees are poker chips in the big Card GAME, especially now.

SpecialTracking

We might not hire for another 3 years but you should apply for two reasons. First, it's better to have a job offer and turn it down, than no interview/job offer at all. Second, you will get some interview practice at United for the job/interview you really want at another carrier.

Andy

DOH? Absolutely not. That would be a huge windfall for me. (another 2x furloughee hired in 2000).

It should be integrated based on relative seniority of all active pilots as of first date of merger announcement (approx 3 May 2010).
Once that's complete, furloughees from both sides should be dovetailed on an equal ratio. I think CAL had ~150 pilots furloughed at the time of merger announcement. United had 1437 on furlough. So you dovetail them at a ratio of 9.5 United pilots to 1 CAL pilot.

That's about as 'fair' as you can get. I'm sure there will be some shouting that it's not fair but they are just trying to move up the list a few numbers.

Bandera89

Airlineapps.com takes a lot of time to complete.

Interviewing for a job takes a lot of money.

The whole process takes a lot of effort.

By the time UniCal starts hiring again, your app will probably be dropped like what SWA did to all thier apps. All of the apps were dumped and you had to start all over again. I would wait till things shake out at UniCal. Concentrate on other efforts which will be more fruitful. YOU be the judge...

Regularguy

Andy:

"DOH? Absolutely not. That would be a huge windfall for me. (another 2x furloughee hired in 2000)."

See, you also prove we pilots (as well as all people) are fully equipped with opinions and ideas about what is fair. And you are proving my point. The integration will be unfair to all but a few (Those hired in the 80s and earlier and those hired at CAL in the 2000s).

Now for a different point:

Right now USAir is the most toxic airline in the world because they can't see eye to eye or even compromise. Their bickering has merely fed into the fantasies of grandeur their CEO has. Hope the same doesn't continue or happen at UAL.

Here is what I see is the problem at UAL. The two contracts are far different in the area which really counts, work rules. As bad as UAL has been after the BK contract CAL's is worse and they like it. Why? because they can work more hours (at a higher pay rate mind you). Go figure?

Personally I want the higher pay rates but have the opportunity to work less hours!

Ok rip away you guys!

Riddler

I'm a CAL guy. Our work rules pretty much suck and NO, WE DO NOT LIKE IT. PBS sucks. Reserve rules are beyond unsafe. Training on days off without getting paid. Need I go on?

SoCalGuy

Wow....you must living in the area code of ASSumption by stating that CAL Pilot's "LIKE" their current contract. FACT: Today, you would be hard pressed at best to find even a few percentage points supporting what you preach. Even in the "hay-day", only 57% were dooped into passing POS'02.....and that was back then!

One question for you concerning CBA's.....If the concept of "Work Rules" (or lacking) ranks as paramount by way of your statement above, just where does the importance of SCOPE reside?? It would not take an expert to cite that without SCOPE, 'you' will be no where near property to enjoy/reap the 'riches' in which "Work Rules" bring, just ask UAL's 1437.

Cart before the horse, or are you forgetting that??