CAL Pilots who side with UAL Pilots... tba
02-01-2011, 09:03 PM
#42
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 36
Well, the problem fer ol tricky Dicky Ferris is he just wasn't as SMART as ol Lorenzo and he screwed up! He gave the pilots the opportunity to come back to work for his "last and final offer" (as you point out it still had the daggum B-scale and all of the items ALPA supposedly went out on strike over) so THEY DID! Huh?? Totally messed up his plans! Word is DICK was out on the golf course and when he heard that the pilots were coming back in it made him so mad he tossed his iron into a pond! It ****ed off the UAL Board of Directors (the strike had been very costly) and made it look like the pilots had won! LORDY!! What a stroke of GENIUS by ALPA at the time! They snatched victory from the jaws of defeat and COMPLETELY turned the tide of opinion at the company against management. Ferris lasted a few more years and was gone - laughing stock to this day.
And it's affected things at UAL ever since. Hell, UAL's scabs have had to run for cover for over 25 years! They didn't take over, they don't run SQUAT at UAL, they're not still infesting the training center or management. But looky over there at CAL! Different story no? Look at the UAL training center vs. CALs. Does CAL have scabs on their MEC? In management? And what's management like at CAL? TOP DOWN?? Dictatorial? What's the relationship between ALPA and management at CAL? It ALL goes back to the strike and the culture that permeated and infected both airlines.
And yeah, I said INFECTED pard becuase the legacy of the strikes has been BAD at both airlines, just for different reasons. At UAL the union was empowered and it led to that STUPID daggum ESOP that screwed us over not only for retirement but led to the company being run like crap by FOOLS who had no business running a major corporation. The pilots ran roughshod over the company for 10+ years and it was a DISASTER.
NOBODY "won" anything from those two damned strikes and both companies are still living with the barnyard stink of it to this day. BLAME MANAGMENT. No pilot ever wants to go out on strike!
But lets giddyup on back to the point where we waltzed into this saloon: The United pilot's strike of 1985 was damned sure SUCCESSFUL given what Ferris wanted to do and the fact that he didn't get ANY of it done. And don't you forget it or try to re-write history!!
OK, I'm gettin' too fired up...gotta let this one go and simmer down...
02-01-2011, 09:16 PM
#43
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 36
02-02-2011, 03:47 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Delta M88 A ATL
Posts: 383
How many other picket lines has ALPA crossed in its history? The ALPA pilots at CAL, those fierce warriors who battled Lorenzo, crossed a flight attendant picket line in late 70s or early 80s. How did the other unions at Northwest react to the 2005 mechanics' strike?[/QUOTE]
We NWA pilots went on strike in 1998, and none of the mechanics that I am aware of honored our strike.
We NWA pilots went on strike in 1998, and none of the mechanics that I am aware of honored our strike.
02-02-2011, 05:14 AM
#45
New Hire
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: B756 CA EWR
Posts: 9
NO, you're dead wrong pard because yer missing the BIG PICTURE. Ferris had ONE MISSION: Break ALPA at United. You talk to the fellas doing the negotiating at the time and they'll tell you ALPA was backing up week by week, month by month, giving ground trying to prevent a strike but Ferris would have NUTHIN of it. Why? It became clear to the ALPA leadership at UAL at the time because he wasn't interested in getting to a contract - his only aim was UNION BUSTING. His pal Lorenzo had just done it and he was gonna do it too!
Well, the problem fer ol tricky Dicky Ferris is he just wasn't as SMART as ol Lorenzo and he screwed up! He gave the pilots the opportunity to come back to work for his "last and final offer" (as you point out it still had the daggum B-scale and all of the items ALPA supposedly went out on strike over) so THEY DID! Huh?? Totally messed up his plans! Word is DICK was out on the golf course and when he heard that the pilots were coming back in it made him so mad he tossed his iron into a pond! It ****ed off the UAL Board of Directors (the strike had been very costly) and made it look like the pilots had won! LORDY!! What a stroke of GENIUS by ALPA at the time! They snatched victory from the jaws of defeat and COMPLETELY turned the tide of opinion at the company against management. Ferris lasted a few more years and was gone - laughing stock to this day.
And it's affected things at UAL ever since. Hell, UAL's scabs have had to run for cover for over 25 years! They didn't take over, they don't run SQUAT at UAL, they're not still infesting the training center or management. But looky over there at CAL! Different story no? Look at the UAL training center vs. CALs. Does CAL have scabs on their MEC? In management? And what's management like at CAL? TOP DOWN?? Dictatorial? What's the relationship between ALPA and management at CAL? It ALL goes back to the strike and the culture that permeated and infected both airlines.
And yeah, I said INFECTED pard becuase the legacy of the strikes has been BAD at both airlines, just for different reasons. At UAL the union was empowered and it led to that STUPID daggum ESOP that screwed us over not only for retirement but led to the company being run like crap by FOOLS who had no business running a major corporation. The pilots ran roughshod over the company for 10+ years and it was a DISASTER.
NOBODY "won" anything from those two damned strikes and both companies are still living with the barnyard stink of it to this day. BLAME MANAGMENT. No pilot ever wants to go out on strike!
But lets giddyup on back to the point where we waltzed into this saloon: The United pilot's strike of 1985 was damned sure SUCCESSFUL given what Ferris wanted to do and the fact that he didn't get ANY of it done. And don't you forget it or try to re-write history!!
OK, I'm gettin' too fired up...gotta let this one go and simmer down...
Well, the problem fer ol tricky Dicky Ferris is he just wasn't as SMART as ol Lorenzo and he screwed up! He gave the pilots the opportunity to come back to work for his "last and final offer" (as you point out it still had the daggum B-scale and all of the items ALPA supposedly went out on strike over) so THEY DID! Huh?? Totally messed up his plans! Word is DICK was out on the golf course and when he heard that the pilots were coming back in it made him so mad he tossed his iron into a pond! It ****ed off the UAL Board of Directors (the strike had been very costly) and made it look like the pilots had won! LORDY!! What a stroke of GENIUS by ALPA at the time! They snatched victory from the jaws of defeat and COMPLETELY turned the tide of opinion at the company against management. Ferris lasted a few more years and was gone - laughing stock to this day.
And it's affected things at UAL ever since. Hell, UAL's scabs have had to run for cover for over 25 years! They didn't take over, they don't run SQUAT at UAL, they're not still infesting the training center or management. But looky over there at CAL! Different story no? Look at the UAL training center vs. CALs. Does CAL have scabs on their MEC? In management? And what's management like at CAL? TOP DOWN?? Dictatorial? What's the relationship between ALPA and management at CAL? It ALL goes back to the strike and the culture that permeated and infected both airlines.
And yeah, I said INFECTED pard becuase the legacy of the strikes has been BAD at both airlines, just for different reasons. At UAL the union was empowered and it led to that STUPID daggum ESOP that screwed us over not only for retirement but led to the company being run like crap by FOOLS who had no business running a major corporation. The pilots ran roughshod over the company for 10+ years and it was a DISASTER.
NOBODY "won" anything from those two damned strikes and both companies are still living with the barnyard stink of it to this day. BLAME MANAGMENT. No pilot ever wants to go out on strike!
But lets giddyup on back to the point where we waltzed into this saloon: The United pilot's strike of 1985 was damned sure SUCCESSFUL given what Ferris wanted to do and the fact that he didn't get ANY of it done. And don't you forget it or try to re-write history!!
OK, I'm gettin' too fired up...gotta let this one go and simmer down...
02-02-2011, 05:20 AM
#46
Ben Salley
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Left
Posts: 924
NO, you're dead wrong pard because yer missing the BIG PICTURE. Ferris had ONE MISSION: Break ALPA at United. You talk to the fellas doing the negotiating at the time and they'll tell you ALPA was backing up week by week, month by month, giving ground trying to prevent a strike but Ferris would have NUTHIN of it. Why? It became clear to the ALPA leadership at UAL at the time because he wasn't interested in getting to a contract - his only aim was UNION BUSTING. His pal Lorenzo had just done it and he was gonna do it too!
Well, the problem fer ol tricky Dicky Ferris is he just wasn't as SMART as ol Lorenzo and he screwed up! He gave the pilots the opportunity to come back to work for his "last and final offer" (as you point out it still had the daggum B-scale and all of the items ALPA supposedly went out on strike over) so THEY DID! Huh?? Totally messed up his plans! Word is DICK was out on the golf course and when he heard that the pilots were coming back in it made him so mad he tossed his iron into a pond! It ****ed off the UAL Board of Directors (the strike had been very costly) and made it look like the pilots had won! LORDY!! What a stroke of GENIUS by ALPA at the time! They snatched victory from the jaws of defeat and COMPLETELY turned the tide of opinion at the company against management. Ferris lasted a few more years and was gone - laughing stock to this day.
And it's affected things at UAL ever since. Hell, UAL's scabs have had to run for cover for over 25 years! They didn't take over, they don't run SQUAT at UAL, they're not still infesting the training center or management. But looky over there at CAL! Different story no? Look at the UAL training center vs. CALs. Does CAL have scabs on their MEC? In management? And what's management like at CAL? TOP DOWN?? Dictatorial? What's the relationship between ALPA and management at CAL? It ALL goes back to the strike and the culture that permeated and infected both airlines.
And yeah, I said INFECTED pard becuase the legacy of the strikes has been BAD at both airlines, just for different reasons. At UAL the union was empowered and it led to that STUPID daggum ESOP that screwed us over not only for retirement but led to the company being run like crap by FOOLS who had no business running a major corporation. The pilots ran roughshod over the company for 10+ years and it was a DISASTER.
NOBODY "won" anything from those two damned strikes and both companies are still living with the barnyard stink of it to this day. BLAME MANAGMENT. No pilot ever wants to go out on strike!
But lets giddyup on back to the point where we waltzed into this saloon: The United pilot's strike of 1985 was damned sure SUCCESSFUL given what Ferris wanted to do and the fact that he didn't get ANY of it done. And don't you forget it or try to re-write history!!
OK, I'm gettin' too fired up...gotta let this one go and simmer down...
Well, the problem fer ol tricky Dicky Ferris is he just wasn't as SMART as ol Lorenzo and he screwed up! He gave the pilots the opportunity to come back to work for his "last and final offer" (as you point out it still had the daggum B-scale and all of the items ALPA supposedly went out on strike over) so THEY DID! Huh?? Totally messed up his plans! Word is DICK was out on the golf course and when he heard that the pilots were coming back in it made him so mad he tossed his iron into a pond! It ****ed off the UAL Board of Directors (the strike had been very costly) and made it look like the pilots had won! LORDY!! What a stroke of GENIUS by ALPA at the time! They snatched victory from the jaws of defeat and COMPLETELY turned the tide of opinion at the company against management. Ferris lasted a few more years and was gone - laughing stock to this day.
And it's affected things at UAL ever since. Hell, UAL's scabs have had to run for cover for over 25 years! They didn't take over, they don't run SQUAT at UAL, they're not still infesting the training center or management. But looky over there at CAL! Different story no? Look at the UAL training center vs. CALs. Does CAL have scabs on their MEC? In management? And what's management like at CAL? TOP DOWN?? Dictatorial? What's the relationship between ALPA and management at CAL? It ALL goes back to the strike and the culture that permeated and infected both airlines.
And yeah, I said INFECTED pard becuase the legacy of the strikes has been BAD at both airlines, just for different reasons. At UAL the union was empowered and it led to that STUPID daggum ESOP that screwed us over not only for retirement but led to the company being run like crap by FOOLS who had no business running a major corporation. The pilots ran roughshod over the company for 10+ years and it was a DISASTER.
NOBODY "won" anything from those two damned strikes and both companies are still living with the barnyard stink of it to this day. BLAME MANAGMENT. No pilot ever wants to go out on strike!
But lets giddyup on back to the point where we waltzed into this saloon: The United pilot's strike of 1985 was damned sure SUCCESSFUL given what Ferris wanted to do and the fact that he didn't get ANY of it done. And don't you forget it or try to re-write history!!
OK, I'm gettin' too fired up...gotta let this one go and simmer down...
I was starting to think I was in bizzaro world for a minute.
02-02-2011, 05:23 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 875
How many other picket lines has ALPA crossed in its history? The ALPA pilots at CAL, those fierce warriors who battled Lorenzo, crossed a flight attendant picket line in late 70s or early 80s. How did the other unions at Northwest react to the 2005 mechanics' strike?
We NWA pilots went on strike in 1998, and none of the mechanics that I am aware of honored our strike.
We NWA pilots went on strike in 1998, and none of the mechanics that I am aware of honored our strike.
truth!!
NWA mechanix went to work during the pilot strike in 98.. Not making a statement saying its wrong (or even right) for them to do that but don't turn around and point fingers when the tables are turned.
02-02-2011, 05:34 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
Nice post, The only thing I would add is that you really can't take a group out on strike for 2 1/2 years and not expect mass crossing. If you haven't made your point in say, 3 months, your hosed. 2 1/2 years is a long time to endure no paycheck and a lot of time for the company to train pilots. (especially when there were Braniff pilots out of work)
It was disorganized during that strike, bad communication still to this day there is bad info about it. I am sure if it happened again it would be done better, I guess we will just wait and see.
Jetjock you can see it how you want to see it or how a "negotiator" told you it happened, I have never had misinformation given to me from alpa, but do me a favor don't tell me how I should see it! Now you can go back to being fired up.
Last edited by syd111; 02-02-2011 at 06:00 AM.
02-02-2011, 06:02 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
The 1985 UAL pilot strike was an incredible organizational feat. They used cutting edge communications tools including three nationwide, satellite-linked teleconferences, countless video tapes sent to pilots' homes and invented Family Awareness to keep the pilots' wives/husbands and families supportive and engaged.
For whatever reason you want to dismiss the powerful and existential threat posed by the Administration that broke PATCO and supported Lorenzo in breaking CAL ALPA.
02-02-2011, 06:25 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
Sorry flytolive I saw much wrong info given out by too many sources, constantly changing thoughts on what determines a sc__, don't go to training, yes go to training, only 4 crossed , pilots that worked both sides of the fence some now doing important work for us, no sc__ will ever be let back in, yea how did that work out? Yes I am aware of family awareness and many things that came around at this time.
So you know I am a unionist just don't want alpa anymore, like many people here. I think my favorite line I ever heard on this property was "We won't go back without you"
Have you ever heard that line?
I might be the only one on the website that feels this way but there are plenty out flying the line.
So you know I am a unionist just don't want alpa anymore, like many people here. I think my favorite line I ever heard on this property was "We won't go back without you"
Have you ever heard that line?
I might be the only one on the website that feels this way but there are plenty out flying the line.
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