contrail67

For all we know the thread starter Temple is some student pilot at some flight school...just trying to start a bunch of hype.

EWRflyr

You must think we pilots are really stupid and can't focus on more than one thing at a time. Seriously, we make hundreds of decisions a day with data coming in and yet, we aren't capable of focusing on more than the 70-seat RJ issue???

Sometimes I wonder why you are even posting on this forum.

EWRflyr

First post and this is the flame bait you start with?

Remember Mr. FLIBS mantra:

Domestic doesn't make money.

(BTW, Jeff, news flash: SW is ALL domestic, they make plenty of money and pay a heck of a lot more too. And don't give me the LCC garbage. It is a legacy by this point after so many years in business with senior employees. Just because your fuel hedging geniuses couldn't get it right or you wouldn't raise fares by just $5 for every passenger over the past decade to cover the $1 billion loss 2000-2009 does not mean the employees are buying what you are selling.)

So, international stuff is still going to have to grow to reaffirm Jeff's ethos and he can't do it by alliances, JVs, and foreign carriers alone. He'll need our pilots and our scope section to do it.

Boneman

And just what is your source of this BS rumor?

tomgoodman

Sometimes a "proposal" will be floated anonymously (by either side), just to see what kind of fire it draws. If it gets clobbered, the source can deny all knowledge of it.

strfyr51

************************************************** ********
I post because you guys don't appear to know what you're doing so I don't NEED to!! If you were all that sharp you wouldn't NEED an arbitrator to settle seniority issues. You'd have been SMART enough to get TOGETHER and do it yourselves. You think I didn't read those supid statements you posted about "career expectations" *** is that??
DO you have seniority? then GET in LINE according to number! If you were that sharp you'd have KNOWN that Jeff wasn't going to do JACK for you and that TILTON was calling the tunes. You'd ALSO have known WHY the 70 seaters were flying into the CAL Hubs. Because they're GOING to fly there ANYWAY!! You're not going to change anything!! And you guys are walking around in the COLD gettng frozenfeet for absolutely NOTHING! You're NOT even going to strike about it either! Let enough money hit the table? And all of that 70 seat stuff is going to fall on DEAF ears. But the International scope?? THAT'S important! WHO CARES about a few lousy 70 seaters when you're about to get your Pockets picked??

LeeFXDWG

I believe you are correct, but, is the proposal from this mgmt group that unbelievable? Their hope, they can capture enough of each list to thinly pass a JCBA that frees up int'l scope as well. Those that vote for it are senior enough to reap great benefit from the pay raise, may realize it means the end of the career, but don't care because their event horizon is short enough to not see any significant impact to their bottom line. In other words, "they can't dismantle the airline quick enough to get to me before I retire and enjoy 10 years of a significant pay raise."

Again, I'm talking about the "mentality" UA mgmt might be using and in no way saying the strategy has a chance of succeeding or much less that this proposal has any merit.

I don't know enough to say what the demographics of CAL are. I can say that there are too many "younger" pilots at UAL on the seniority lists that have seen what outsourcing has done (not that the senior pilots haven't) and have quite awhile until retirement age. I believe they get the fact that without scope everything else is transient and will be lost in the future by nature of a shrinking airline.

All they have to look to is the int'l JV process. They know mgmt is starting to squeeze, so to speak, the vice from both ends of "out sourcing" the airline. There is no job security in that.

Scope first. Anything else doesn't matter.

Frats,
Lee

A320

That first post isn't worth even commenting on.

PurdueFlyer

Pay, benefits, work rules, etc. ain't worth **** with out scope. You have to have a job to take advantage of the other things.

AxlF16

The good news is that they're getting closer to the correct pay level

Seriously, this has to be a mgmt nugget since NO MEC MEMBER or NC MEMBER would give this proposal the time of day. If any of you doubt me, then pick up the phone and call your rep and ask. Our pilot groups my differ of some issues, but SCOPE (doesn't mean just small jets!) is one area where we are in complete agreement. Don't waste your time worrying about, or considering, this type of rumor...you'll never be asked to vote for something like this.

FWIW, I'm just a line pilot who talks to his reps and keeps as much in the loop as I can. I don't have any 'inside' sources or an MBA