UAL/CAL ARBITOR ruling submitted on 70 seater
12-31-2010, 05:57 PM
#51
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 12
There's another thread in this subsection where a guy was kind enough to answer that for me. Posts number 35, 39, and 46 deal with it.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ca...bagtags-4.html
In typical fashion, management will just up the frequency of the 50/70 seat equipment. Then market it as "increased service". And deal with the fallout/poop storm that results fromthe frequency but overall capacity loss of trying to run flights between two very busy, and often delayed airports.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ca...bagtags-4.html
In typical fashion, management will just up the frequency of the 50/70 seat equipment. Then market it as "increased service". And deal with the fallout/poop storm that results fromthe frequency but overall capacity loss of trying to run flights between two very busy, and often delayed airports.
01-02-2011, 10:10 AM
#53
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
C172driver -
Thanks for the post! If you really want to know what's going on in the airline industry, this is NOT the place to find out! In this forum you mostly hear from a bunch of whining, sniveling, spoiled little children. I suggest you look elsewhere for a true picture of what life is like in the airline piloting profession. I wish you well in your future flying endeavors.
Happy New Year!
JD
p.s. The entire UAL pilot contract is available on APC downloads. In it, you will find a section on SJ (small jet) flying by the company.
Thanks for the post! If you really want to know what's going on in the airline industry, this is NOT the place to find out! In this forum you mostly hear from a bunch of whining, sniveling, spoiled little children. I suggest you look elsewhere for a true picture of what life is like in the airline piloting profession. I wish you well in your future flying endeavors.
Happy New Year!
JD
p.s. The entire UAL pilot contract is available on APC downloads. In it, you will find a section on SJ (small jet) flying by the company.
There is a section of C2003 that deals with the amount of outsourcing to the regionals UAL can do. I believe someone above posted the exact section. From what I understand, United is very close, if not AT the limit of how much regional expansion they can do without expanding the mainline.
The post above is another unfortunate lesson in life as an airline pilot. There are a few pilots out there who for whatever reason think they are smarter, better, and generally superior to the rest of us "working stiffs". I'm not sure why. Perhaps they wanted to be managers when they grew up but failed. Perhaps they are rich by other means, and don't need a decent paycheck, perhaps they struggle with social skills and feel that going against the grain makes them "special" rather than awkward. Luckily, in most cases, their voices just blow around in the wind.... unless you happen to be their poor first officer and are stuck in the cockpit with them for a 4 day trip.
There is the rare exception, however, when you might actually be called on to strike for the greater good of your fellow pilots and profession. THEN these people become dangerous. They will gladly cross a picket line and try their best to unravel what those before them toiled with blood, sweat, and tears to accomplish. Luckily, they are a rare breed, and will fail as they do often in life (see the success of the Spirit strike).
The poster above always argues to "think for yourself". I urge the same. Think for yourself before you ever decide to *BLANK* your buddies. That logic will serve you well with whatever you decide to do whether it be a pilot, soldier, athlete, etc.
The "whining, sniveling, spoiled little children" comment while referring to his/her coworkers should give you an idea of which camp he/she is in. Luckily in PBS there is usually a function for First Officers to "Avoid Pair With XXX Captain" for just such cases.
01-02-2011, 12:00 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Sitting down and facing front in a plane
Posts: 136
Dear C172driver,
There is a section of C2003 that deals with the amount of outsourcing to the regionals UAL can do. I believe someone above posted the exact section. From what I understand, United is very close, if not AT the limit of how much regional expansion they can do without expanding the mainline.
The post above is another unfortunate lesson in life as an airline pilot. There are a few pilots out there who for whatever reason think they are smarter, better, and generally superior to the rest of us "working stiffs". I'm not sure why. Perhaps they wanted to be managers when they grew up but failed. Perhaps they are rich by other means, and don't need a decent paycheck, perhaps they struggle with social skills and feel that going against the grain makes them "special" rather than awkward. Luckily, in most cases, their voices just blow around in the wind.... unless you happen to be their poor first officer and are stuck in the cockpit with them for a 4 day trip.
There is the rare exception, however, when you might actually be called on to strike for the greater good of your fellow pilots and profession. THEN these people become dangerous. They will gladly cross a picket line and try their best to unravel what those before them toiled with blood, sweat, and tears to accomplish. Luckily, they are a rare breed, and will fail as they do often in life (see the success of the Spirit strike).
The poster above always argues to "think for yourself". I urge the same. Think for yourself before you ever decide to *BLANK* your buddies. That logic will serve you well with whatever you decide to do whether it be a pilot, soldier, athlete, etc.
The "whining, sniveling, spoiled little children" comment while referring to his/her coworkers should give you an idea of which camp he/she is in. Luckily in PBS there is usually a function for First Officers to "Avoid Pair With XXX Captain" for just such cases.
There is a section of C2003 that deals with the amount of outsourcing to the regionals UAL can do. I believe someone above posted the exact section. From what I understand, United is very close, if not AT the limit of how much regional expansion they can do without expanding the mainline.
The post above is another unfortunate lesson in life as an airline pilot. There are a few pilots out there who for whatever reason think they are smarter, better, and generally superior to the rest of us "working stiffs". I'm not sure why. Perhaps they wanted to be managers when they grew up but failed. Perhaps they are rich by other means, and don't need a decent paycheck, perhaps they struggle with social skills and feel that going against the grain makes them "special" rather than awkward. Luckily, in most cases, their voices just blow around in the wind.... unless you happen to be their poor first officer and are stuck in the cockpit with them for a 4 day trip.
There is the rare exception, however, when you might actually be called on to strike for the greater good of your fellow pilots and profession. THEN these people become dangerous. They will gladly cross a picket line and try their best to unravel what those before them toiled with blood, sweat, and tears to accomplish. Luckily, they are a rare breed, and will fail as they do often in life (see the success of the Spirit strike).
The poster above always argues to "think for yourself". I urge the same. Think for yourself before you ever decide to *BLANK* your buddies. That logic will serve you well with whatever you decide to do whether it be a pilot, soldier, athlete, etc.
The "whining, sniveling, spoiled little children" comment while referring to his/her coworkers should give you an idea of which camp he/she is in. Luckily in PBS there is usually a function for First Officers to "Avoid Pair With XXX Captain" for just such cases.
JD
01-02-2011, 12:44 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
JA brings up a valid concern, but for the wrong reason.
The problem on this forum is that one can pretend to be something they are not. JetDaily is NOT a United Pilot, and yet she pretends to be one.
You must be discerning when reading posts here. Gettinbumped on the other hand IS a United Pilot, and an excellent source of information.
As you are well aware by now, pilots routinely have to determine what information is valid, and which is not. In this case it should be a piece of cake for you to figure out.
C172 Glad you are involved here!
Take care,
SP
01-02-2011, 01:37 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: A320/A319/B737 Sys Acft Maint Controller
Posts: 303
so NOW the question IS?? Even if the 70 seat outsourced flying CAN'T be done under the CAL contract. It CAN be done under the UALALPA contract, and that begs the question?? What THEN is the strategy ot END 70 seat contract flying at UAL??
And keep in mind that it's GOING to cost you (And quite a Bit I might add because ALL these guys understand IS Money.. I can almost guarantee after 27 hears at the 'U' they don't understand, NOR have they CARED about much else since 1986. And? Since 2003 they haven't feared ALPA at ALL, (possibly thru Brvado? More than likely Stupidity! Notice, I Did NOT say Ignorance!!) so it wil be up to YOU guys as the 'ADULTS' in this confrontation to devise and present a salable strategy. Otherwise you Will see a strike.
IMHO.
And keep in mind that it's GOING to cost you (And quite a Bit I might add because ALL these guys understand IS Money.. I can almost guarantee after 27 hears at the 'U' they don't understand, NOR have they CARED about much else since 1986. And? Since 2003 they haven't feared ALPA at ALL, (possibly thru Brvado? More than likely Stupidity! Notice, I Did NOT say Ignorance!!) so it wil be up to YOU guys as the 'ADULTS' in this confrontation to devise and present a salable strategy. Otherwise you Will see a strike.
IMHO.
01-02-2011, 04:19 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 645
I honestly think that this is going to come down to a strike. I was hired at United 11 years ago and have spent half of my time on furlough. I would gladly spend another year on the street either on furlough or on strike to get our scope back. I think most furloughees feel the same way.
01-02-2011, 08:24 PM
#60
Ben Salley
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Left
Posts: 924
What is your advice to regional pilots? What do you expect those of us who might be assigned to this work, who see it as a violation of the labor agreement, and who want to be in your right seat asap? We are powerless as to whether this comes to pass. They assign the flying, we do the flying. Short of a congressional mandate that all aircraft 50+ seats must be flown by major airlines, what can we do about it? And don't tell me that I should refuse to do the flight, because you all know exactly how that would go down.
We also know that we have the support of many skw pilots. It will be complicated, but I wouldn't voluntarily bid into a CAL hub.
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