strfyr51

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Making Jeff Nervous is really a MOOT point because He's NOT the Chairman of the Board! And, If he Get's Nervous? There are "Lieutenants in the wings" who WON"T be Nervous! (And have beaten ALPA IN COURT, MORE than ONCE!!) Might I suggest you guys TAKE this to court to SEE if you can win because Otherwise?? All the Picketing you're doing is going to result in FROSTBITE and not much Else. Getting a JCBA and an SLI to Negotiate as a Single "FIST" instead of 4 Fingers and a Thumb would be FAR more impressive to the "Sharks" you're siting across the table from than walking in circles singing "Kumbaya". Hoping that the Ebeneezer Scrooge-Jabob Marley LLC. on the other side of the TABLE MIGHT grow a HEART. I'll tell you. Were I sitting across the Table and you weren't even able to get your OWN ALPA house in order?? I'd surely BLOW your house DOWN!! You'd be lucky to NOT have some regional flying A319's in United Colors when I finished!! Solidarity in "Purpose" is the KEY guys. To date? You haven't shown much. I suggest you rectify that PDQ. No JCBA? No SLI? If competent People sit across from you?? They might very well MOP the FLOOR with your Negotiators. ALPA is Not and Hasn't been a real force in recent years. It's common KNOWLEGE that ALPA has many "internal issues". (Like USAir as an example.) I HOPE Truly that you're the solution and a guiding LIGHT that others might follow and not just MORE Darkness!! I wish you all WELL and Victory.

LivinTheDream28

My question is: If 95% of mainline guys want RJs gone, including many senior guys, then why did all of you "senior" guys vote them in? Everyone had a vote and most voted to take the money at the expense of jobs. Sure, I've been at a regional for a long time, but I'd obviously much rather be at mainline making a wage that isn't insulting. This constant outsourcing is making me want to quit altogether, if I didn't have a family to support. Now I'm hearing Mesa is up for some more 70 seat flying out of IAH. God help us all if that happens. Nothing like more $20/hour pilots flying 70 seaters around. If you can't get it all out, at least get rid of anything over 50 seats. PLEASE, for all of our sakes.

EWRflyr

Let's see. So you are saying that ALPA is at fault because we don't have a JCBA yet? You are aware the company wanted a JCBA soon after October 1st, but by their own admission couldn't actually fully negotiate a contract until at least 10/1 because of anti-trust reasons related to separate companies. Only in November did the union get a full contract proposal from the company which they are working on responding to shortly. Negotiators from both sides (management and joint ALPA) have been meeting for weeks at a time every month since July to work on this thing. It is not for a lack of trying and certainly the company has admitted it is now able to more fully engage in the process since the merger legally closed.

Our SLI is tied to the JCBA. While work may go on related to the SLI, the SLI will not be completed until there is a ratified JCBA first. This was done by design to prevent the very USAirways situation you accuse ALPA of being responsible for.

I will argue that ALPA is not responsible for the USAirways-America West fiasco. I know Easties will come on here and vehemently disagree, but they accused ALPA of not representing them fairly. I find this argument a total crock. I see it as ALPA staying neutral during that merger

The East pilots went to ALPA national over the whole arbitration ruling saying that it needed to be investigated and over turned. The investigation centered on ALPA merger policy and were steps followed correctly in that policy to get to the arbitrator's decision. When all was said and done, ALPA National said both sides were given the policy and the tools. Both sides followed the policies and no one deviated from them. As such, both sides agreed to binding arbitration (always a risk for one or both groups). ALPA National had no choice but to say they couldn't over turn the decision because their own policy had been followed. To do so, the America West pilots would have had a case to make, in court, that National did not represent the West pilots as outlined in the merger policy.

The USAirways debacle was and is of the East pilots' making. The merger policy worked for them until the didn't like the outcome and came up with a new definition of the word "binding." Yes, there have been massages to the policy since that seniority ruling, but to lay the blame on ALPA for that is wrong, IMHO.

strfyr51

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I Never said any such thing!! you need to read it again! What I SAID was the hoodlums that run UAL dont give a HOOT nor are they in awe of ALPA like they were in previous Years and that includes YOU!! And? If YOU don't get an JCBA and an SLI then those "Sharks" you're sitting across from are going to take that as WEAKNESS amongst your ranks because I see it as "weakness" as well. How can you sit around talking about Solidarity when it appears that you HAVE none, and the Company can SEE that?? Why do you think they're putting 70 seater's in the CAL hubs right in your FACE?? Simple! They don't believe you have the Gumption to do much about it! If you did and you REALLY had them by the "short hairs" they'd be DRAGGING you into negotaitions. I don't know how you guys came to think you had "ALL THAT" going on, but these guys are Ruthless!! And you thinking you can worry JEFF?? PLease!! You'd better worry about How you're going to "PAY for the Privlege" of getting RID of those 70 seaters. Because if you Don't? We're going to SEE who the "toughest" is and from where I sit? The Outcome is REALLY in doubt!! I was here during the '85 Strike, and I KNOW what the CAL Pilots did during their strike. I've not seen much that I can hang my Hat on that says you'll be any real force since I don't think UAL NOR CAL ALPA is in a power formation to push UAL around at all. (though I could be wrong.. I hope so.) I think they'll offer a good chunk of Money, and THAT will be THAT!
I personally don't believe there will BE a strike allowed by Presidential decree especially with the Republican's back in power in the House and Jim Oberstar's butt on the Streets.. But Blaming ALPA?? Aren't YOU ALPA??
Or am I talking about somebody OTHER than YOU??

gettinbumped

I've covered this at LEAST 5 times in other threads.... probably closer to 10. Your accusation is too simplistic. The RJs were initially voted in after a presentation by our then MC saying we would either get 777s or RJs but not both. Well of course we NOW know that the 777s were never ordered. The
Vote in 2000 allowed a limited number of 70 seaters. Dumb on our part. But the real RJ problem was brought to you by CH11. Nobody was voting for any
money on that one, I assure you.

You RJ guys LOVE to trot this argument out, I'm not sure why. The landscape has changed. Why do you assume that we "senior guys" will vote the way we did in 95 after all we've seen in the past 16 years? Hopefully we will shut the whole thing down, but I'm not too concerned about the 50. At $90 a barrel, that airplane isn't worth the cloth on the seats

EWRflyr

I don't know if it is the way you write, your typing format or how you are trying to express yourself regarding this matter, but it is really hard to follow and incoherent at times.

If I got wrong with what you were saying, I apologize, but the way I read it (and have re-read it a few times) was that you blame ALPA for not having the JCBA and SLI completed already. Again, I Think part of THE problem IS How your Format (your) posts.

I will address your view on a possible strike or lack thereof. First, the NEW United may be entering the "too big to fail" or even "too big to strike" category. I certainly hope not, in regards to the latter, because for years management has been able to hold the advantage under the RLA, politics and the courts. President Obama will be under pressure from both sides. Labor will demand the opportunity to use all available means to bring this to resolution. At the same time, management will argue that commerce depends too greatly on an airline the size of the New United, especially in this fragile economic recovery, to allow employees to strike. Politics will come into play here. However under the RLA the PRESIDENT, not Congress, may create a PEB. Republicans can take over both houses for all I care. In this instance, the president retains this power.

30west

I will address your view on a possible strike or lack thereof. First, the NEW United may be entering the "too big to fail" or even "too big to strike" category. I certainly hope not, in regards to the latter, because for years management has been able to hold the advantage under the RLA, politics and the courts. President Obama will be under pressure from both sides. Labor will demand the opportunity to use all available means to bring this to resolution. At the same time, management will argue that commerce depends too greatly on an airline the size of the New United, especially in this fragile economic recovery, to allow employees to strike. Politics will come into play here. However under the RLA the PRESIDENT, not Congress, may create a PEB. Republicans can take over both houses for all I care. In this instance, the president retains this power.[/QUOTE]


And IMHO we will probably at least take a strike vote over the scope section of the new contract, management at this point still doesn't believe we are committed to this at all costs. I think they are wrong but it will take a vote at least to make them believers. Good luck to us all.

30west

avi8tor4life

Hell yeah. Let's hope you are the majority out there. For all our sakes.