An observation from Flyertalk - Says it all
11-26-2010, 04:59 PM
#1
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An observation from Flyertalk - Says it all
This was an observation from a CO passenger about why Southwest can pay their pilots so well and CO cries poor and claims they can't make money domestically.
Nobody is buying the huge bonuses and raises that UACO executives gave themselves.
1. WN is today the U.S. airline that enplanes the most domestic-bound passengers.
2. WN tends not to have a very deep network in smaller cities and this could explain why they do not have any regional affiliates. WN does serve a few smaller cities, such as GEG, BOI, RNO, ABQ, AMA, LBB, MAF, CRP, HRL, PFN, JAN, BHM, CHS, GSP, ORF, ISP, PVD, ALB, and MHT. Admittedly, with the possible exception of some of the Texan airports on this list, there are no really small airports here.
3. WN does do quick turns, but so does CO. In fact, CO's very high a/c utilization rate was adopted from WN.
In the end, the WN business model is definitely different from that of the legacy carriers, and while the fact that they do not serve a lot of smaller airports certainly means they do not need a regional affiliate, it still does not explain why they can be profitable and have the highest pilots' salaries in the business.
Obviously, many factors come into play, but one would have to imagine that when the 30 or so top executives at UaCo immediately give themselves raises so that their salaries and possible bonuses for 2010 alone would add up to nearly $60 million, an amount that could pay for the salaries of 2,500 first-year First Officers, something is not right.
Again, no one is saying that executives do not deserve to be paid more, nor that they shouldn't have performance-based bonuses, but it does send a pretty rotten message to the tend of thousands of employees of UaCo, since they have not received a single cent extra on their far more modest salaries.
Again, perhaps it demonstrates that pilots' pay is not the difference between red and black ink. __________________
Nobody is buying the huge bonuses and raises that UACO executives gave themselves.
1. WN is today the U.S. airline that enplanes the most domestic-bound passengers.
2. WN tends not to have a very deep network in smaller cities and this could explain why they do not have any regional affiliates. WN does serve a few smaller cities, such as GEG, BOI, RNO, ABQ, AMA, LBB, MAF, CRP, HRL, PFN, JAN, BHM, CHS, GSP, ORF, ISP, PVD, ALB, and MHT. Admittedly, with the possible exception of some of the Texan airports on this list, there are no really small airports here.
3. WN does do quick turns, but so does CO. In fact, CO's very high a/c utilization rate was adopted from WN.
In the end, the WN business model is definitely different from that of the legacy carriers, and while the fact that they do not serve a lot of smaller airports certainly means they do not need a regional affiliate, it still does not explain why they can be profitable and have the highest pilots' salaries in the business.
Obviously, many factors come into play, but one would have to imagine that when the 30 or so top executives at UaCo immediately give themselves raises so that their salaries and possible bonuses for 2010 alone would add up to nearly $60 million, an amount that could pay for the salaries of 2,500 first-year First Officers, something is not right.
Again, no one is saying that executives do not deserve to be paid more, nor that they shouldn't have performance-based bonuses, but it does send a pretty rotten message to the tend of thousands of employees of UaCo, since they have not received a single cent extra on their far more modest salaries.
Again, perhaps it demonstrates that pilots' pay is not the difference between red and black ink. __________________
11-26-2010, 08:46 PM
#2
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Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: A320/A319/B737 Sys Acft Maint Controller
Posts: 303
This was an observation from a CO passenger about why Southwest can pay their pilots so well and CO cries poor and claims they can't make money domestically.
Nobody is buying the huge bonuses and raises that UACO executives gave themselves.
1. WN is today the U.S. airline that enplanes the most domestic-bound passengers.
2. WN tends not to have a very deep network in smaller cities and this could explain why they do not have any regional affiliates. WN does serve a few smaller cities, such as GEG, BOI, RNO, ABQ, AMA, LBB, MAF, CRP, HRL, PFN, JAN, BHM, CHS, GSP, ORF, ISP, PVD, ALB, and MHT. Admittedly, with the possible exception of some of the Texan airports on this list, there are no really small airports here.
3. WN does do quick turns, but so does CO. In fact, CO's very high a/c utilization rate was adopted from WN.
In the end, the WN business model is definitely different from that of the legacy carriers, and while the fact that they do not serve a lot of smaller airports certainly means they do not need a regional affiliate, it still does not explain why they can be profitable and have the highest pilots' salaries in the business.
Obviously, many factors come into play, but one would have to imagine that when the 30 or so top executives at UaCo immediately give themselves raises so that their salaries and possible bonuses for 2010 alone would add up to nearly $60 million, an amount that could pay for the salaries of 2,500 first-year First Officers, something is not right.
Again, no one is saying that executives do not deserve to be paid more, nor that they shouldn't have performance-based bonuses, but it does send a pretty rotten message to the tend of thousands of employees of UaCo, since they have not received a single cent extra on their far more modest salaries.
Again, perhaps it demonstrates that pilots' pay is not the difference between red and black ink. __________________
Nobody is buying the huge bonuses and raises that UACO executives gave themselves.
1. WN is today the U.S. airline that enplanes the most domestic-bound passengers.
2. WN tends not to have a very deep network in smaller cities and this could explain why they do not have any regional affiliates. WN does serve a few smaller cities, such as GEG, BOI, RNO, ABQ, AMA, LBB, MAF, CRP, HRL, PFN, JAN, BHM, CHS, GSP, ORF, ISP, PVD, ALB, and MHT. Admittedly, with the possible exception of some of the Texan airports on this list, there are no really small airports here.
3. WN does do quick turns, but so does CO. In fact, CO's very high a/c utilization rate was adopted from WN.
In the end, the WN business model is definitely different from that of the legacy carriers, and while the fact that they do not serve a lot of smaller airports certainly means they do not need a regional affiliate, it still does not explain why they can be profitable and have the highest pilots' salaries in the business.
Obviously, many factors come into play, but one would have to imagine that when the 30 or so top executives at UaCo immediately give themselves raises so that their salaries and possible bonuses for 2010 alone would add up to nearly $60 million, an amount that could pay for the salaries of 2,500 first-year First Officers, something is not right.
Again, no one is saying that executives do not deserve to be paid more, nor that they shouldn't have performance-based bonuses, but it does send a pretty rotten message to the tend of thousands of employees of UaCo, since they have not received a single cent extra on their far more modest salaries.
Again, perhaps it demonstrates that pilots' pay is not the difference between red and black ink. __________________
WN, NEEDS the Pilots and Mechanics "on Board" to sustain their operating plan. WN needs the pilots to take airplanes where they can say don't do this, or Don't use that (Auto-braking) and Taxi like you're crazy to sustain their plan. UAL has already determined that International operations is where they're going and THAT will be the source of their profits, the domestic operation wll be TO FEED the international operation. Something WN isn't About to do nor can they. (at least Not yet) UAL isn't GOING yet to pay like WN until there's no other option for them NOT to. NOBODY outside of Very Senior Management knows Exactly how much UCAL Holdings Inc. is making. ONCE Jeff got an "inkling" of those numbers he was ready to "jump the Broom" to hop in the "Sack" with Glenn Tilton. That's why to "keep it sweet" UAL had to Pay the premium to Buy Continental, (and CAL would have had to pay $175M to Leave the Dence) rather than the opposite, that's why the WHQ is in Chicago. ALPA can't pressure United like Southwest's Pilots can pressure WN. Without your Pilots and Mechanics drinking the Koolaid? WN wouldn't be "Jack". I'll bet you NO mechanic at United would let any Fuselage cracks go unrepaired. Because I KNOW from FACT that external Fuselage cracks are Not acceptable in ANY Boeing Structural repair manual.. So all one can conclude is that WN's Pilots and Mechanics are "Bought and Paid for".
Not a slam toward WN because they do good Business. But the Observation looks pretty Valid to me..
11-29-2010, 07:01 AM
#3
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
Not quite sure where you're getting your information, but UAL DIDN'T "buy" Continental........and why would CAL have to pay anything? That's like saying if USAirways wanted to buy us and we said no, we'd have to pay them to NOT buy us. Kind of scammy isn't it? BTW, we didn't pursue UAL to make this "merger" happen........... ONLY the BOD and Smisek wanted it.....and that was after he "lied" to us and told us he wasn't interested in making this happen.......until he saw the $$$$$$.
11-29-2010, 12:50 PM
#4
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Posts: 3,071
UAL wins antitrust approval to buy Continental
By Deepa Seetharaman
NEW YORK | Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:33pm EDT
(Reuters) - United Airlines won U.S. antitrust approval to buy Continental Airlines CAL.N on Friday, throwing a sweetener to rival Southwest Airlines (LUV.N) to allow the creation of the world's largest carrier.
United and Continental struck a deal to give Southwest some take-off and landing rights at a key airport hub, Newark Liberty International Airport near New York City, to get the go-ahead from the U.S. Justice Department -- a decision that came sooner than industry insiders had expected.
Despite the swift antitrust review, integrating the carriers is much more complex and time-consuming, and consumers are not likely to see any major changes immediately.
Continental and UAL scheduled special stockholder meetings on September 17 for approval of the merger and expect the deal to close by October 1. The deal won clearance from the European Commission in July.
United parent UAL Corp UAUA.O had announced in May that it would buy Continental for $3.17 billion in an all-stock deal. The combined carrier would be known as United Airlines and be based in Chicago, with Continental Chief Executive Jeff Smisek as CEO.
The deal is the first major U.S. airline merger since Delta Air Lines (DAL.N) acquired Northwest Airlines in 2008 and comes after the airline industry has been hammered by a surge in oil prices followed by a deep recession.
The combined carrier would attract more business traffic because the company would fly to 370 destinations, the airlines have said. The merger is expected to produce between $1 billion to $1.2 billion in annual revenue and cost benefits by 2013.
The Justice Department's decision came less than two hours after the two merging airlines announced they would give up 36 slots at Newark Liberty to Southwest.
11-29-2010, 08:56 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 178
United Continental Holdings, Inc. - Investor Relations - News
United and Continental Announce Merger of Equals to Create World-Class Global Airline
HOUSTON & CHICAGO, May 03, 2010 (BUSINESS WIRE) --Continental (NYSE: CAL) and United (NASDAQ: UAUA) today announced a definitive merger agreement, creating the world's leading airline with superior service to customers, expanded access to an unparalleled global network serving 370 destinations around the world, enhanced long-term career prospects for employees, and a platform for improved profitability and sustainable long-term value for shareholders. The all-stock merger of equals brings together two of the world's premier airlines, creating a combined company well positioned to succeed in an increasingly competitive global and domestic aviation industry.
11-30-2010, 06:38 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,905
Not quite sure where you're getting your information, but UAL DIDN'T "buy" Continental........and why would CAL have to pay anything? That's like saying if USAirways wanted to buy us and we said no, we'd have to pay them to NOT buy us. Kind of scammy isn't it? BTW, we didn't pursue UAL to make this "merger" happen........... ONLY the BOD and Smisek wanted it.....and that was after he "lied" to us and told us he wasn't interested in making this happen.......until he saw the $$$$$$.
11-30-2010, 07:41 AM
#7
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Posts: 3,071
Be careful where you get your news from. The "fly by" media often get it wrong. The article below is from the United Continental Holding website.
United Continental Holdings, Inc. - Investor Relations - News
United and Continental Announce Merger of Equals to Create World-Class Global Airline
HOUSTON & CHICAGO, May 03, 2010 (BUSINESS WIRE) --Continental (NYSE: CAL) and United (NASDAQ: UAUA) today announced a definitive merger agreement, creating the world's leading airline with superior service to customers, expanded access to an unparalleled global network serving 370 destinations around the world, enhanced long-term career prospects for employees, and a platform for improved profitability and sustainable long-term value for shareholders. The all-stock merger of equals brings together two of the world's premier airlines, creating a combined company well positioned to succeed in an increasingly competitive global and domestic aviation industry.
United Continental Holdings, Inc. - Investor Relations - News
United and Continental Announce Merger of Equals to Create World-Class Global Airline
HOUSTON & CHICAGO, May 03, 2010 (BUSINESS WIRE) --Continental (NYSE: CAL) and United (NASDAQ: UAUA) today announced a definitive merger agreement, creating the world's leading airline with superior service to customers, expanded access to an unparalleled global network serving 370 destinations around the world, enhanced long-term career prospects for employees, and a platform for improved profitability and sustainable long-term value for shareholders. The all-stock merger of equals brings together two of the world's premier airlines, creating a combined company well positioned to succeed in an increasingly competitive global and domestic aviation industry.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/bu.../03merger.html
11-30-2010, 08:18 AM
#8
Fore!
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Not quite sure where you're getting your information, but UAL DIDN'T "buy" Continental........and why would CAL have to pay anything? That's like saying if USAirways wanted to buy us and we said no, we'd have to pay them to NOT buy us. Kind of scammy isn't it? BTW, we didn't pursue UAL to make this "merger" happen........... ONLY the BOD and Smisek wanted it.....and that was after he "lied" to us and told us he wasn't interested in making this happen.......until he saw the $$$$$$.
11-30-2010, 08:54 AM
#9
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Posts: 28
What Does Merger Of Equals Mean?
The combination of two firms of about the same size to form a single company. In a merger of equals, shareholders from both firms surrender their shares and receive securities issued by the new company.
This was the case in the Merger of Equals between United and Continental. Both UAUA and CAL shareholders surrendered their stock and received shares of UAL (United-Continetal Holdings) in return.
11-30-2010, 08:59 AM
#10
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Posts: 3,071
Not true.
What Does Merger Of Equals Mean?
The combination of two firms of about the same size to form a single company. In a merger of equals, shareholders from both firms surrender their shares and receive securities issued by the new company.
This was the case in the Merger of Equals between United and Continental. Both UAUA and CAL shareholders surrendered their stock and received shares of UAL (United-Continetal Holdings) in return.
What Does Merger Of Equals Mean?
The combination of two firms of about the same size to form a single company. In a merger of equals, shareholders from both firms surrender their shares and receive securities issued by the new company.
This was the case in the Merger of Equals between United and Continental. Both UAUA and CAL shareholders surrendered their stock and received shares of UAL (United-Continetal Holdings) in return.
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