CAL-UAL, who needs it?
11-09-2010, 04:23 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: Cap. 737
Posts: 293
I don't think there has been one call to staple anyone. I think it is a very real possibility that furloughees will be below active pilots based on past mergers. Here at Delta we had 01 hires that had been furloughed twice placed below 07 new hires. How did that happen, you ask? because they used a ratioed integration based on equipment and a snapshot in time. Everyone ended up at their relative seniority. If you were halfway up either list premerger you ended about halfway up the post merger list. The same thing basically happened at US Air except the premerger US Air pilots were given a few hundred of the top slots because America West didn't have any widebodies. Then they just ratioed the rest of the list and when they got to the end they added the furloughees (remember no seat brought to the dance).
You might not like to hear it but you better prepare for the worse case scenario then be very happy if it comes out otherwise.
You might not like to hear it but you better prepare for the worse case scenario then be very happy if it comes out otherwise.
11-09-2010, 04:36 PM
#62
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 2
This is about the dumbest idea I have seen yet. I know nobody likes or wanted this merger but it is a done deal. In about 4 or 5 months there will only be United Airlines as far as the public knows. Lets get PAID now while the perception exists that we are still two airlines. USAIR is not a roll model.
11-09-2010, 06:38 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 787 CA
Posts: 425
[QUOTE=strfyr51;898762]And even though there is a "proposed" Merger all things are NOT necessarily equal As I see it.[QUOTE]
News flash - all things are not necessarily equal from the CAL pilots' perspective either. Like you, we think we bring greater career expectaions to the table.
[QUOTE=strfyr51;898762]NOT until what was before LOST is now regained and Both Pilot groups are "Made whole" to start from a Level playing field. Am I wrong in this assumpton??[QUOTE]
Yes.
[QUOTE=strfyr51;898762]From where I sit, our Worthy colleagues from Continental Shouldn't have any Say in when or How the UAL pilots recover what they lost.[QUOTE]
Sorry but that's just not the way it works. The JOINT negotiating committees passes the proposed JOINT CBA to the BOTH MEC's and BOTH pilot groups COLLECTIVELY vote on it. I like it less than you do but we're stuck with it.
[QUOTE=strfyr51;898762]So would SOMEONE
Please tell my Why there is this petty Squabbling??[QUOTE]
Because guys like you and Coto persist in parading your (mostly misinformed) perceptions about how you think the merger SHOULD happen and what YOU think is fair. That's why the original topic of this thread has a very real chance of occurring in a kinda lame, protracted status quo. Let it go. The arbitrator won't be calling to ask your opinion...
News flash - all things are not necessarily equal from the CAL pilots' perspective either. Like you, we think we bring greater career expectaions to the table.
[QUOTE=strfyr51;898762]NOT until what was before LOST is now regained and Both Pilot groups are "Made whole" to start from a Level playing field. Am I wrong in this assumpton??[QUOTE]
Yes.
[QUOTE=strfyr51;898762]From where I sit, our Worthy colleagues from Continental Shouldn't have any Say in when or How the UAL pilots recover what they lost.[QUOTE]
Sorry but that's just not the way it works. The JOINT negotiating committees passes the proposed JOINT CBA to the BOTH MEC's and BOTH pilot groups COLLECTIVELY vote on it. I like it less than you do but we're stuck with it.
[QUOTE=strfyr51;898762]So would SOMEONE
Please tell my Why there is this petty Squabbling??[QUOTE]
Because guys like you and Coto persist in parading your (mostly misinformed) perceptions about how you think the merger SHOULD happen and what YOU think is fair. That's why the original topic of this thread has a very real chance of occurring in a kinda lame, protracted status quo. Let it go. The arbitrator won't be calling to ask your opinion...
11-09-2010, 06:48 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Here's a question.
Since CAL DIDN'T go Bankrupt in 2002 and UAL DID then Why is it CAL believes that the UAL ALPA Pilots have to make Less and stay banded when the concept was a "forced Rape" during Bankruptcy?? Are the UAL ALPA pilots NOT to recover what they gave up since the airline UAL and CAL are now making money? And even though there is a "proposed" Merger all things are NOT necessarily equal As I see it. NOT until what was before LOST is now regained and Both Pilot groups are "Made whole" to start from a Level playing field. Am I wrong in this assumpton?? If I had pay taken AWAY and now It's returned and I am once again "restored" (in as much as one Can be restored at United) ONLY then would I be in a position to advance to the "Next Level"
For negotiating a joint contract (IMHO).. Because to accept a "Banding" program that was IMPOSED upon me seems to be Working from a defecit rather than a Level playing field. I could be mistaken, and If I am then might someone PLEASE correct my logic?
From where I sit, our Worthy colleagues from Continental Shouldn't have any Say in when or How the UAL pilots recover what they lost. ONLY that what was once Lost is recovered IN FULL! Then and ONLY THEN would Both groups be on "Par" to advance a Joint Bargaining agreement and the Single Labor Intergration. Not ONLY would this be logical for the pilots but for the other Labor Groups as well I believe. So would SOMEONE
Please tell my Why there is this petty Squabbling??. Because I don't UNDERSTAND!!!
Thank you all in advance for any Logic you might render on my behalf to advance my knowlege and Wisdom..
Since CAL DIDN'T go Bankrupt in 2002 and UAL DID then Why is it CAL believes that the UAL ALPA Pilots have to make Less and stay banded when the concept was a "forced Rape" during Bankruptcy?? Are the UAL ALPA pilots NOT to recover what they gave up since the airline UAL and CAL are now making money? And even though there is a "proposed" Merger all things are NOT necessarily equal As I see it. NOT until what was before LOST is now regained and Both Pilot groups are "Made whole" to start from a Level playing field. Am I wrong in this assumpton?? If I had pay taken AWAY and now It's returned and I am once again "restored" (in as much as one Can be restored at United) ONLY then would I be in a position to advance to the "Next Level"
For negotiating a joint contract (IMHO).. Because to accept a "Banding" program that was IMPOSED upon me seems to be Working from a defecit rather than a Level playing field. I could be mistaken, and If I am then might someone PLEASE correct my logic?
From where I sit, our Worthy colleagues from Continental Shouldn't have any Say in when or How the UAL pilots recover what they lost. ONLY that what was once Lost is recovered IN FULL! Then and ONLY THEN would Both groups be on "Par" to advance a Joint Bargaining agreement and the Single Labor Intergration. Not ONLY would this be logical for the pilots but for the other Labor Groups as well I believe. So would SOMEONE
Please tell my Why there is this petty Squabbling??. Because I don't UNDERSTAND!!!
Thank you all in advance for any Logic you might render on my behalf to advance my knowlege and Wisdom..
Let me start by saying I am utterly empathetic and feel your pain, but you need to understand that folks who have not suffered in the same way in which you have can not and will never look back at YOUR past when making decisions about THEIR future. As much as I agree with the "justice" of your ideas, I would counter with a fundamental rule that I have taught my children since they were "knee high to a grasshopper""
Life is NOT fair.
Your losses in years past mean nothing to those deciding your future, and so you can accept that and use every means possible to affect the future to your benefit or you can lament the loss and watch as the world passes you by.
11-09-2010, 06:53 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Did anyone read this, and has anyone taken the time to read the link? . . .
. . . you guys really amaze me in your lack of willingness to do the work to understand what is happening around you . . .
. . . you guys really amaze me in your lack of willingness to do the work to understand what is happening around you . . .
We have carefully reviewed the respective submissions, evidence and arguments submitted over the 12 days of hearings. In the course of constructing the ISSL, we have taken seriously the admonition of the ALPA Merger Policy to disrupt as little as possible the valid career expectations of pilots who have staked their professional lives on service to their respective companies. We have also recognized, as one must, that pre-merger expectations borne by both sides to this process will, in virtually all cases, be tempered and shaped by the realities of an enlarged, merged workforce. Notwithstanding months of vigorous negotiations and subsequent good faith participation in mediation efforts, the parties to this dispute are deeply divided, as is apparent from their respective proposals: Each does little more than stack the deck for their own constituencies in ways that are neither fair nor equitable. As will be discussed below, this Board has chosen a different approach, one that adopts a Ratio and Category basis, but with a simplified grouping of aircraft, a “Pull and Plug” adjustment mechanism that addresses Attrition considerations and a limited period of Conditions and Restrictions designed to deal with, among other things, fleet expansion and reduction.
11-09-2010, 07:13 PM
#68
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Did anyone read this, and has anyone taken the time to read the link? . . .
. . . you guys really amaze me in your lack of willingness to do the work to understand what is happening around you . . .
. . . you guys really amaze me in your lack of willingness to do the work to understand what is happening around you . . .
United MEC Forums
Unless you care to give us "ALL" your login/password.....not so easy for us "CAL" types to share in the knowledge that you peddle.
So in short, to answer your question, "NO...we have not had time/or the 'opportunity' to read"
....but not saying that we would not be willing to read
11-09-2010, 07:43 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
If you'd stop patting yourself on the back & realize the 'hyperlink' (above) in which you provide sends 'one' to an "http" that ONLY allows UAL Pilots (yes, pre-merger UAL 'guys') to access the site through your MEC Website via a password....kinda like this one:
United MEC Forums
Unless you care to give us "ALL" your login/password.....not so easy for us "CAL" types to share in the knowledge that you peddle.
So in short, to answer your question, "NO...we have not had time/or the 'opportunity' to read"....but not saying that we would not be willing to read
United MEC Forums
Unless you care to give us "ALL" your login/password.....not so easy for us "CAL" types to share in the knowledge that you peddle.
So in short, to answer your question, "NO...we have not had time/or the 'opportunity' to read"
....but not saying that we would not be willing to readThanks for the correction, and please accept my sincere apologies for the failed link. Shame on me for not checking. Hopefully this link works better . . .
. . . Really? Patting myself on the back? . . . Condescending yes, but self congratulatory I didn't see
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