Mgt JCBA Proposal - Oct 28,2010
10-29-2010, 09:52 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: 737 capt
Posts: 335
Yes, United was big in 2001, but not this big. United did NOT have near this many planes, pilots, FAs or other employee groups. Sorry, the numbers just don't bear that out. I believe the number of pilots only reached as high as 11,000 and the number of planes about 650, or so, back in 2000/01. United now has over 12,500 pilots and about 700 mainline airframes.
Skippy is EXACTLY right. United Pilots will NEVER be allowed to strike for two reasons. First, it is almost inconceiveable that the United MEC would be released from mediation by NMB to begin a cooling off period after having broken the law so blatantly by their actions in 2007/08 and their subsequent preliminary injunction handed down by Judge Lefkow (and STONGLY upheld by the appelate court judge). Yes, that injunction is STILL in full force and effect indefinitely.
Second, the PEB that would be convened (regardless of which party was occupying the Oval Office) would instruct the parties to "return to the table" until an agreement had been reached. No sitting president would, in his/her right mind, allow an airline the size of the new United to stop flying, especially in light of the volatile nature and fragility of today's economy.
It's just not going to happen, IMHO.
JD
Skippy is EXACTLY right. United Pilots will NEVER be allowed to strike for two reasons. First, it is almost inconceiveable that the United MEC would be released from mediation by NMB to begin a cooling off period after having broken the law so blatantly by their actions in 2007/08 and their subsequent preliminary injunction handed down by Judge Lefkow (and STONGLY upheld by the appelate court judge). Yes, that injunction is STILL in full force and effect indefinitely.
Second, the PEB that would be convened (regardless of which party was occupying the Oval Office) would instruct the parties to "return to the table" until an agreement had been reached. No sitting president would, in his/her right mind, allow an airline the size of the new United to stop flying, especially in light of the volatile nature and fragility of today's economy.
It's just not going to happen, IMHO.
JD
10-29-2010, 10:06 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
10-30-2010, 03:56 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 520
they won didnt they?-- but hey alpa still has theIr pride and code of ethics-- GMAFB. to win like them, you must become like them, and reap the rewards like them.
and i dont think they lied-----they won b/c they had evidence--
Last edited by skippy; 10-30-2010 at 06:35 AM.
10-30-2010, 06:56 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Sitting down and facing front in a plane
Posts: 136
WELL! Here's somebody who knows how to read and look at facts objectively. Good for you, Skip. That evidence is a pretty pesky thing, eh? I read the entire injunction (all 85 pages), the appellate court decision AND the evidence! Very damning, indeed!
ALPA code of ethics....now there's an oxymoron for you!!! I am laughing out loud RIGHT NOW ! ! !
Great post, Skippy!!
Best,
JD
10-30-2010, 06:59 AM
#26
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
Yes, United was big in 2001, but not this big. United did NOT have near this many planes, pilots, FAs or other employee groups. Sorry, the numbers just don't bear that out. I believe the number of pilots only reached as high as 11,000 and the number of planes about 650, or so, back in 2000/01. United now has over 12,500 pilots and about 700 mainline airframes.
Skippy is EXACTLY right. United Pilots will NEVER be allowed to strike for two reasons. First, it is almost inconceiveable that the United MEC would be released from mediation by NMB to begin a cooling off period after having broken the law so blatantly by their actions in 2007/08 and their subsequent preliminary injunction handed down by Judge Lefkow (and STONGLY upheld by the appelate court judge). Yes, that injunction is STILL in full force and effect indefinitely.
Second, the PEB that would be convened (regardless of which party was occupying the Oval Office) would instruct the parties to "return to the table" until an agreement had been reached. No sitting president would, in his/her right mind, allow an airline the size of the new United to stop flying, especially in light of the volatile nature and fragility of today's economy.
It's just not going to happen, IMHO.
JD
Skippy is EXACTLY right. United Pilots will NEVER be allowed to strike for two reasons. First, it is almost inconceiveable that the United MEC would be released from mediation by NMB to begin a cooling off period after having broken the law so blatantly by their actions in 2007/08 and their subsequent preliminary injunction handed down by Judge Lefkow (and STONGLY upheld by the appelate court judge). Yes, that injunction is STILL in full force and effect indefinitely.
Second, the PEB that would be convened (regardless of which party was occupying the Oval Office) would instruct the parties to "return to the table" until an agreement had been reached. No sitting president would, in his/her right mind, allow an airline the size of the new United to stop flying, especially in light of the volatile nature and fragility of today's economy.
It's just not going to happen, IMHO.
JD
It's not going to get that far in my opinion anyway. We (finally) have something they want..... Control over their ability to get a single operating certificate and merger synergy. It's going to cost them, and they know it. It is time for some restitution, and that is fair and reasonable. Even USAirways has figured out that operating as 2 groups is less cost effective than just compensating the employees correctly.
10-30-2010, 07:01 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Sitting down and facing front in a plane
Posts: 136
10-30-2010, 07:17 AM
#28
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Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
10-30-2010, 07:19 AM
#29
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Sitting down and facing front in a plane
Posts: 136
The NMB has a critically different makeup than it did in 2007/2008. The tide has turned for labor with the current group. The injunction doesn't matter a whit in this discussion. Nobody is talking about doing anything illegal. What the PEB does is another story. Predictions of their actions are just that.... Predictions.
It's not going to get that far in my opinion anyway. We (finally) have something they want..... Control over their ability to get a single operating certificate and merger synergy. It's going to cost them, and they know it. It is time for some restitution, and that is fair and reasonable. Even USAirways has figured out that operating as 2 groups is less cost effective than just compensating the employees correctly.
It's not going to get that far in my opinion anyway. We (finally) have something they want..... Control over their ability to get a single operating certificate and merger synergy. It's going to cost them, and they know it. It is time for some restitution, and that is fair and reasonable. Even USAirways has figured out that operating as 2 groups is less cost effective than just compensating the employees correctly.
They (UAL management) really DO see the CA$H opportunities from the merger and they are ENORMOUS. However, I'm not so naive as to think they will just give away the store and let the MEC roll over them. They are going to demand some movement on scope AND improvement in productivity from the SENIOR bubbas, many of whom drop way down in their monthly skeds at the expense of the lowly junior pukes who are left holding the bag.
"Tide turning for labor?" You're stilling looking at this as an "us vs. them" situation. That's unfortunate.
Best -
JD
p.s. The injunction does matter in the discussion of whether the UAL pilots will be able to strike. And, the NMB make-up is largely irrelevant. A pilot workforce of nearly 13,000 pilots at the world's largest airline will NEVER be allowed to strike.
10-30-2010, 07:31 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Sitting down and facing front in a plane
Posts: 136
Nice try.
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