AxlF16

Oh the horror

Blockoutblockin

I'm still waiting for JD's so called facts to emerge. So far the troll revels in hyperbole but does not state any substantive information - just trying to kick the hornets nest but instead keeps ending up on his ar$e.

iahflyr

Guys, I am not giving my name out on a public forum. I am a Continental pilot, live in Houston, i'm younger than many of the guys here, and I am 6ft5. That should be enough to figure out who I am (in the name of transparency). I will not give out my name on a public forum. I will say I am not Chris or Carl.

I don't come on here to stir up the pot, create tension, or call people names. I just have a flaming hatred for radical union members that will damage the company to try and squeeze whatever extra compensation they can out of the golden goose, permanently damaging the company, and ultimately putting it into a financial situation that causes our compensation to be below what it could have been.

EWRflyr, that is my opinion exactly. What do you say to the bums like davessn or axlf16 who do want to do this? That is what is bothering me.


Many of the people that post on this forum hold pretty radical views that are not shared by the majority of the pilot group. The guys I fly with are good workers, do what they can to help the company out when possible, and share a similar view to what EWRflyr posted above. The guys I fly with share less radical view points than what many CAL pilots are posting on this board.

Blockoutblockin

What you state is quite possibly the majority view in IAH. It doesn't matter anymore though 'cause you are now marginalized! Let the flushing begin.

AxlF16

So I'm a bum? Where do you get the idea that I'm out to ruin the company financially? Can you point out some of my radical views? Hope the name calling works out well for you. While you're at it, why don't you address the factual errors that you base your assumptions about UAL on.

Here's what you can say to guys like davessn an me: "Thank you for allowing me to work under a contract that spineless f@cks like myself could never achieve on our own."

oldmako

I just have a flaming hatred for flaccid Johnson, Casper Milquetoast management wannabes who will bend over and accept minimal compensation and any deceit that comes out of a management team which has an established record of dicking up the operation, has thumbed their noses at us and our passengers while stealing money, squandering good will and riches on half baked ideas and causing our compensation to be far below what it ought to be. Jeez, I didn't even mention stealing the pension!

That sounds about right. But hey, don't worry. We'll get you your industry leading contract while you haul ass to the marker, land on fumes, junior man, throw bags, wax airplanes, answer questions at the podium with your hat on, etc etc etc. ad nauseam. It's been like this for all my 26 years.

Here's a great idea....Find this and read it.

Hard Landing: The Epic Contest for Power and Profits That Plunged the Airlines into Chaos

Thomas Petzinger Jr.
Visit Amazon's Thomas Petzinger Jr. Page


Amazon.com: Hard Landing: The Epic Contest for Power and Profits That Plunged the Airlines into Chaos (9780812928358): Thomas Petzinger Jr.: Books: Reviews, Prices & more (There, I found it for ya! )

Read what the big bad corrupt and evil unions did to the airline industry, and then compare that to what Lorenzo, Crandall, Borman, Ackerman, Icahn, Tilton, et al have done to ruin a once great transportation system. When it comes to fiscal mayhem, Pilots are amateurs!

Seriously, we all want to work for a vibrant, healthy kick butt airline. The difference is, we are willing to ensure that we get a fair share of the pie.

Did you hear what they offered IAM? That's the kind of raise they want you to take, in exchange for scope relief up to, oh lets say 90 seats.

You can work overtime everyday for the rest of your life, be Joe Super Pilot and go the extra mile but the second they can $hitcan your job and replace you with an RJ, or anyone else willing to work for less, you'll be toast. Unless you've got iron clad SCOPE. Which is probably the number one thing being negotiated for on your behalf by your union at the present time.

How long ago was our contract due? Yours? Americans? How long did Air Tran wait?

iahflyr

Absolutely. I only had to go back 15 posts to find these.

So there is an issue on the airplane you are suppose to be getting from point A to point B. The pax are on board. The captain is trying to do everything he can to get the flight to go, and you stand in the jetway. That sounds like someone I don't want working at my company.

How do you plan to "show" our management. Taxiing way too slow. Taking on way more fuel than you should just cause. Flying low and fast. Running the APU all the time. Never single engine taxiing. Call in sick often. What else will you do to show them?

Wring as much out of their "butts" as we can, eh? Didn't United try that in 2000? How well did that work? That would financially damage the company.


As for name calling... I'd recommend you go back at skim the first lines of your most recent 50 posts. You call some people some pretty colorful names. In almost every single post non the less. I'm not going to repeat them on here. It's actually really easy to see. Just click on your name, click on see all posts by you, and you can view 25 per page (the first 3 lines or so). Maybe you should focus less on calling people names and bringing up facts.

boxer6

Mssr's. JD and IAH Flyer,

I have flown with both union and non-union carriers so my perspective is from both sides of the aisle. Believe me when I say I am no fan of some of the unions that exist here in the U.S. The SEIU, NEA and most of the public sector unions to name a few. Having said that and from what I've read of you I don't expect you will give what I have to say much credence. If so, that's fine.

My experience in the non union environment was that of helplessness. I've seen a guy fired because his ex was dating a pilot mgmt type and she he had it out for him. She fabricated some things and that was that. Not a thing he could do. Sue? Need deep financial resources to get that going. As for rules of engagement between mgmt and the pilot group it is mgmt's (schedulers/training dept,etc.) their whim. You think there isn't any favoritism being played? I know you're not that naive. Pay and benefits are at the most minimum levels that mgmt. can get away with short of a revolt. That's OK, that is what they are supposed to do. That's what I would do.

One thing unions do provide is a level of protection from abuse. Abuse that is seen and heard everyday in every business at every level. I am quite sure that there are legions of regular working people who wish they had an avenue to right the wrong. Unions do provide that. Of course, they have to protect those that shouldn't be protected. That is a down side. Which pain would you prefer to endure? I will say that I have seen, at an ALPA carrier I worked for, a pilot who seriously did not belong in a cockpit be fired from a subsequent training event. Knowing the right thing to do, the union did not fight for this person's job back.


As in any financial transaction it is a negotiation. Simple. However, some people are afforded the luxury of negotiating from different levels of advantage and leverage. Some of that leverage is deserved (e.g. MVP year for an NFL player) and sometimes it is not. For instance, how much do you think Glenn Tilton deserved the year he authorized the fuel hedging debacle that cost company coffers the tune of 1 Billion dollars? JD, you stated that the board must like Glenn..that's why they keep/pay him. Do you know that (prior to merger) only 3 original board member now exist? Post 2002, the rest of board was picked by guess who? Also know that each board member was granted 10,000 shares of new UAUA stock post BK. Multiply that by$40.00. Nice incentive for the board members, don't you think? Conflict of interest maybe? Ah..but legal. Do you think Glenn's compensation was a difficult negotiation with charts/graphs/productivity and efficiency numbers to justify his 40 MILLION dollars in compensation? They originally asked the judge for 15% of the company stock. The judge agreed to 8%. Gee, that was easy.

How about leverage from a pilot standpoint? It does not matter one iota how much we "deserve/earn" pay/benefits. A mgmt team will not give compensation away. They are not supposed to. Just ask the pilot group at Skywest what their mgmt has given them. Ask them about the "deal us an ace" promise. Ask them if mgmt made good on that promise. The reality is that whatever the Skywest pilot group has it is because of what the other regional carriers have. That's mgmt's bar to keep the group happy.What those other carriers have is a result of negotiation with leverage. Its about leverage and that is what you refer to the "union thug mentality". It doesn't have to be but it is. It seems SWA mgmt is one of the few mgmt's that sees a benefit to keeping negotiations on a non confrontational level. Ask the old timers (60-70-80's) if was easy or any different back then. Ethics have long since been abandoned in business so that is the way of the world. Sad and I wish people's moral compass would swing back.

Long post...my apologies. I do want to leave you with an article written by someone I admire, Ben Stein. A Capitalist and someone who's general views you would probably agree with as well. Hope you read it.



http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/29/bu...y/29every.html


Cheers.

chuckyt1

Nice post boxer. Well said.

AxlF16

I do my job, I expect others to do theirs. Mechanics are there to run engines for troubleshooting, not me. The capt can do 'everything he can' as much as he wants. So how DOES that fire suppression work in the engine when the cowling is open? Exactly how do you evacuate the plane if there is a fire? I suppose you were trained an paid for these contingencies...I was not. The company tells me what they expect from me in my CBA. If they want me to go 'above and beyond', they should try it themselves.

You are inventing things now. I said I would 'show' the weak johnson captains how to be a professional pilot. I don't have to show management anything...they know exactly what to expect since they negotiated it. I'm not a Capt so I don't control taxi speed. I advocate adding extra fuel on about half of my flights...when it makes good sense. I fly where it makes sense for safety and operational considerations. I don't actually like SE taxi when unless it's done for operational reasons. I do not like starting engines while the planes is moving under engine power. No i don't call in sick often, but thank you for being concerned about my health.

They won't give you more than they can afford to pay. Even if we only got half the pay raise in 2000 that we did, they would have still come back asking for paycuts. It's not the way I'd like it to work, but that's the way it is. When the times are good they say "A contract is a contract" to us while lavishing riches upon themselves. When times are tough they come right to us asking for concessions. I have an idea -- maybe they could manage the company properly so as not to bring about self induced crises.

I'll go look to see how badly I've behaved. Is that your excuse for name calling?