Magenta Line - Monday, October 25, 2010
10-27-2010, 05:36 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 111
Never said you needed saving. Was referring to Smisek as a narrow body CEO comment. Which is somewhat correct since CAL is more of a narrow body carrier than UAL.
Since you bring it up, there have been articles written that CAL was sucking a little wind recently.
I would have rather ended up with neither you or USAir.
Since you bring it up, there have been articles written that CAL was sucking a little wind recently.
I would have rather ended up with neither you or USAir.
10-27-2010, 05:44 AM
#82
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
All...I think you might be stretching there. I for one am(was) not in favor of this merger. As a UAL shareholder I voted against it(but I guess my 50 shares couldn't sway the outcome). Now that the ink has dried and it is official I(we) need to make the best of it. Let the JNC do their J.O.B.
BTW, is there a way this merger could be undone? I don't think so.
BTW, is there a way this merger could be undone? I don't think so.
10-27-2010, 05:47 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Le Bus
Posts: 382
All...I think you might be stretching there. I for one am(was) not in favor of this merger. As a UAL shareholder I voted against it(but I guess my 50 shares couldn't sway the outcome). Now that the ink has dried and it is official I(we) need to make the best of it. Let the JNC do their J.O.B.
BTW, is there a way this merger could be undone? I don't think so.
BTW, is there a way this merger could be undone? I don't think so.
What we wanted, WAS TO GET RID OF TILTON. Get it?
He was brought in for 2 reasons... BK and A MERGER.
And ya know what? He's still around and is loving the fact that guys who frequent this board prefer to negotiate pay rates from a starting point of CURRENT PAY.
The starting point is C2000 (look it up) with INDUSTRY LEADING as the end result.
Th
10-27-2010, 05:52 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 332
Looking forward to getting this thing done and moving on. All this debating is pointless. UAL brings hubs in 4 of the top 10 O&D destinations in this country along with the largest Pacific presence with widebody aircraft to serve them. CAL brings a fuel efficient fleet of new aircraft with an order book for a lot more to the table with 2 hubs in the top 5 markets for air travel and a huge Trans-Atlantic and Latin America presence. I think the 747 should pay more than a 777 personally. I trust that the joint negotiating committee will get this right and we will end up with a contract we all can be proud of. When it is all said and done, we will be the largest airline in the world with 747's, 777's, 767's 757's, A320/319's and a ****load of 737's with domiciles in LAX/SFO/IAH/ORD/IAD/EWR/CLE/DEN. Compare that with the world's second largest carrier whose pilots have NYC/ATL/CVG/DTW/MEM/MSP/SLC/LAX as their choices of domicile. I for one, recognize that UAL brings the better bases to the table. UAL brings a lot of widebodies to the table as well. I do feel CAL had the momentum going forward and if you look at what our stand alone fleet would have looked like in 10 years you'd see a lot more widebodies than today. That doesn't really matter today though. Let the elected reps handle the negotiating and lets move on here.
10-27-2010, 05:58 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
Looking forward to getting this thing done and moving on. All this debating is pointless. UAL brings hubs in 4 of the top 10 O&D destinations in this country along with the largest Pacific presence with widebody aircraft to serve them. CAL brings a fuel efficient fleet of new aircraft with an order book for a lot more to the table with 2 hubs in the top 5 markets for air travel and a huge Trans-Atlantic and Latin America presence. I think the 747 should pay more than a 777 personally. I trust that the joint negotiating committee will get this right and we will end up with a contract we all can be proud of. When it is all said and done, we will be the largest airline in the world with 747's, 777's, 767's 757's, A320/319's and a ****load of 737's with domiciles in LAX/SFO/IAH/ORD/IAD/EWR/CLE/DEN. Compare that with the world's second largest carrier whose pilots have NYC/ATL/CVG/DTW/MEM/MSP/SLC/LAX as their choices of domicile. I for one, recognize that UAL brings the better bases to the table. UAL brings a lot of widebodies to the table as well. I do feel CAL had the momentum going forward and if you look at what our stand alone fleet would have looked like in 10 years you'd see a lot more widebodies than today. That doesn't really matter today though. Let the elected reps handle the negotiating and lets move on here.
Nice post iah and thank you, lets move on I could not agree with you anymore.
10-27-2010, 06:00 AM
#86
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
Looking forward to getting this thing done and moving on. All this debating is pointless. UAL brings hubs in 4 of the top 10 O&D destinations in this country along with the largest Pacific presence with widebody aircraft to serve them. CAL brings a fuel efficient fleet of new aircraft with an order book for a lot more to the table with 2 hubs in the top 5 markets for air travel and a huge Trans-Atlantic and Latin America presence. I think the 747 should pay more than a 777 personally. I trust that the joint negotiating committee will get this right and we will end up with a contract we all can be proud of. When it is all said and done, we will be the largest airline in the world with 747's, 777's, 767's 757's, A320/319's and a ****load of 737's with domiciles in LAX/SFO/IAH/ORD/IAD/EWR/CLE/DEN. Compare that with the world's second largest carrier whose pilots have NYC/ATL/CVG/DTW/MEM/MSP/SLC/LAX as their choices of domicile. I for one, recognize that UAL brings the better bases to the table. UAL brings a lot of widebodies to the table as well. I do feel CAL had the momentum going forward and if you look at what our stand alone fleet would have looked like in 10 years you'd see a lot more widebodies than today. That doesn't really matter today though. Let the elected reps handle the negotiating and lets move on here.
That in itself should be worth something......
I agree, let's move on.
10-27-2010, 06:04 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,900
More pilots in training at any given time requires more pilots on the property. Banding aircraft types together for the purposes of pay reduces pilot movement and thereby reduces training events. If you take the time to look, I think that you will find that ALPA has been opposed to the concept since its inception. Now the CAL MEC wants to say that is OK in this one specific example so it won't be used in the SLI. What part of this doesn't make sense?
By your logic, when the company announces XX CA vacancies on the 747, with banded pay, NO ONE will do any training because NO ONE will bid for it. The senior 777 guy will say not worth it so therefore no movement. Wrong. Someone junior is going to move into that slot and may come from say the 757 or 767. Allowing an airbus guy to move up. True, there may not be a one for one upward movement for each plane type. It is a fallacy to say staffing and the resulting training requirements are based on pay.
Originally Posted by SKIPPY
i think the whole "pay banding " is confusing some people.
I was under the impression UAl doesnt want pay banding ( not making the 777 and the 787 the same but banding the 777 and the 747)
the basic arguement that ual will use ( yes im ual) is that if u unband those two aircraft for example, the ual pilots had a "career expectation to fly the biggest aircraft for the biggest money which should come in handy during the SLI and where everyone sits on the seniority list.
so for example if two pilots were hired on the same date, the ual should go ahead of the cal guy simply b/c a few things- he had higher career expectations to fly a bigger aircraft for more money-- ironically they dont take into account that the cal guy( or chic) would have made captain quicker on the narrowbody and made probably more money overall-if that person chose that route--
who knows.
I was under the impression UAl doesnt want pay banding ( not making the 777 and the 787 the same but banding the 777 and the 747)
the basic arguement that ual will use ( yes im ual) is that if u unband those two aircraft for example, the ual pilots had a "career expectation to fly the biggest aircraft for the biggest money which should come in handy during the SLI and where everyone sits on the seniority list.
so for example if two pilots were hired on the same date, the ual should go ahead of the cal guy simply b/c a few things- he had higher career expectations to fly a bigger aircraft for more money-- ironically they dont take into account that the cal guy( or chic) would have made captain quicker on the narrowbody and made probably more money overall-if that person chose that route--
who knows.
However, Mr. Smisek will probably want to get rid of the 747 ASAP so the long-term view might be a better fight than just the short-term battle.
10-27-2010, 06:04 AM
#88
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
These guys truly believe UA pilots wanted this merger. Why? A smattering of deliveries? Awards? EWR base? What a load of crap.
What we wanted, WAS TO GET RID OF TILTON. Get it?
He was brought in for 2 reasons... BK and A MERGER.
And ya know what? He's still around and is loving the fact that guys who frequent this board prefer to negotiate pay rates from a starting point of CURRENT PAY.
The starting point is C2000 (look it up) with INDUSTRY LEADING as the end result.
Th
What we wanted, WAS TO GET RID OF TILTON. Get it?
He was brought in for 2 reasons... BK and A MERGER.
And ya know what? He's still around and is loving the fact that guys who frequent this board prefer to negotiate pay rates from a starting point of CURRENT PAY.
The starting point is C2000 (look it up) with INDUSTRY LEADING as the end result.
Th
Yep, Tilton is STILL sticking it to EVERYONE........his pay should be a crime, and yet the BOD's keep doling $$$$ out to him like THEY are the bank. Yes, I wish we could start at C '00, but that's about as realistic as me hitting the lottery tonight without even buying a ticket.
10-27-2010, 06:10 AM
#89
Fore!
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 756 F/O
Posts: 505
Looking forward to getting this thing done and moving on. All this debating is pointless. UAL brings hubs in 4 of the top 10 O&D destinations in this country along with the largest Pacific presence with widebody aircraft to serve them. CAL brings a fuel efficient fleet of new aircraft with an order book for a lot more to the table with 2 hubs in the top 5 markets for air travel and a huge Trans-Atlantic and Latin America presence. I think the 747 should pay more than a 777 personally. I trust that the joint negotiating committee will get this right and we will end up with a contract we all can be proud of. When it is all said and done, we will be the largest airline in the world with 747's, 777's, 767's 757's, A320/319's and a ****load of 737's with domiciles in LAX/SFO/IAH/ORD/IAD/EWR/CLE/DEN. Compare that with the world's second largest carrier whose pilots have NYC/ATL/CVG/DTW/MEM/MSP/SLC/LAX as their choices of domicile. I for one, recognize that UAL brings the better bases to the table. UAL brings a lot of widebodies to the table as well. I do feel CAL had the momentum going forward and if you look at what our stand alone fleet would have looked like in 10 years you'd see a lot more widebodies than today. That doesn't really matter today though. Let the elected reps handle the negotiating and lets move on here.
10-27-2010, 06:16 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 786
I personally wouldn't place a lot of stock in how much the company has spent on anything recently as an indicator of how committed they are to that asset or path. If they did it the way it has traditionally been done from the CAL side, the company didn't pay for the interiors anyhow. More likely they leaned on the bank or lease company to put in the new interior or find the hull in the desert. Did you get a chance to see any receipts?
If that's not how they played it, no wonder you guys all claim you wanted out from under Tilton. I just caution you are getting what you asked for.
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